Matchplay ruling

Rlburnside

Rlburnside

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Played a matchplay today and it went to extra holes, on the green my ball was in line of my opponents putt so I moved my ball a putters width and placed a coin on replacing I used the putters width and placed the coin ,as I placed my ball to line up my putt my opponent said I replaced in the wrong spot and wondered if it was a penalty or even loss of hole, now I can see his point and if I did putt from there it could have possibly been in the wrong place but we discussed it and I placed my ball behind the coin asked him if he was ok with that and he was, I proceeded to hole my putt for what I thought was the win.

Now it's my understanding if it's agreed by the two players in matchplay to proceed like this it's ok, but after I holed for the win he said he was still not sure of the ruling .

So I suggested we play the second extra hole just to appease him and he can ask about the ruling after , I on the other hand was sure I won the match,I won the next hole with a parr and the match, when we were walking in he said that's the first match he's finished and not sure if he's won.
 
You hadn't played a shot with the ball in the "wrong"place. My reading of your post is that you repositioned the ball, asked your opponent if he was satisfied with the position, then played the shot.

Can't see what his issue was. Totally different if you had played from the wrong spot, but, the ball position was agreed and you holed the putt for a win.
 
[h=2]2-1/1[/h] [h=4]Players Unable to Resolve Rules Problem Agree to Consider Hole Halved[/h] Q.In a match, A putted to within three inches of the hole and then knocked his ball away. B, the opponent, objected. He stated that he wanted A's ball left by the hole. A and B were uncertain how to resolve the matter, so they agreed to consider the hole halved. Should A and B be disqualified under Rule 1-3?

A.No. There was no agreement to waive the Rules. Rather, the players were ignorant of the Rules.
 
and
[h=2]2-5/8.5[/h] [h=4]Player and Opponent Agree on Incorrect Procedure; Whether Valid Claim May Be Made After Procedure Followed[/h] Q.In a match, a player's ball comes to rest on an artificially-surfaced road. He is uncertain if the road is to be treated as an immovable obstruction or an integral part of the course. He asks his opponent and they agree that the player should treat the road as an immovable obstruction. The player drops the ball in accordance with the procedure under Rule 24-2b and plays it. Prior to playing from the next tee, the opponent discovers that he and the player were wrong as the Committee had introduced a Local Rule declaring the road to be an integral part of the course and, therefore, the player was not entitled to take relief under Rule 24-2b. The player should have incurred a loss of hole penalty under Rule 18 for lifting his ball without authority and failing to replace it. May the opponent claim the hole?

A.No. The claim must not be considered by the Committee because the opponent and the player agreed that the player was entitled to relief under Rule 24-2b. When this agreement was reached, there was no longer a doubtful or disputed point and there was no basis under Rule 2-5 for making a claim.

The players were not in breach of Rule 1-3 as they believed at the time they were proceeding properly
 
jim8flog said:
2-1/1

Players Unable to Resolve Rules Problem Agree to Consider Hole Halved

Q.In a match, A putted to within three inches of the hole and then knocked his ball away. B, the opponent, objected. He stated that he wanted A's ball left by the hole. A and B were uncertain how to resolve the matter, so they agreed to consider the hole halved. Should A and B be disqualified under Rule 1-3?

A.No. There was no agreement to waive the Rules. Rather, the players were ignorant of the Rules.
Click to expand...

Thanks but that is a different to my match as I was quite sure of the ruling, just wanted clarification from the experts.

A and B must have been really ignorant of the rules
 
jim8flog said:
and
2-5/8.5

Player and Opponent Agree on Incorrect Procedure; Whether Valid Claim May Be Made After Procedure Followed

Q.In a match, a player's ball comes to rest on an artificially-surfaced road. He is uncertain if the road is to be treated as an immovable obstruction or an integral part of the course. He asks his opponent and they agree that the player should treat the road as an immovable obstruction. The player drops the ball in accordance with the procedure under Rule 24-2b and plays it. Prior to playing from the next tee, the opponent discovers that he and the player were wrong as the Committee had introduced a Local Rule declaring the road to be an integral part of the course and, therefore, the player was not entitled to take relief under Rule 24-2b. The player should have incurred a loss of hole penalty under Rule 18 for lifting his ball without authority and failing to replace it. May the opponent claim the hole?

A.No. The claim must not be considered by the Committee because the opponent and the player agreed that the player was entitled to relief under Rule 24-2b. When this agreement was reached, there was no longer a doubtful or disputed point and there was no basis under Rule 2-5 for making a claim.

The players were not in breach of Rule 1-3 as they believed at the time they were proceeding properly
Click to expand...

Thanks again but as I say it wasn't a inncorrect procedure on my part.:thup:
 
Rlburnside said:
Played a matchplay today and it went to extra holes, on the green my ball was in line of my opponents putt so I moved my ball a putters width and placed a coin on replacing I used the putters width and placed the coin ,as I placed my ball to line up my putt my opponent said I replaced in the wrong spot and wondered if it was a penalty or even loss of hole, now I can see his point and if I did putt from there it could have possibly been in the wrong place
Click to expand...
Why did you think you may have replaced it on the wrong spot? I sounds as if you reversed the process.
 
rulefan said:
Why did you think you may have replaced it on the wrong spot? I sounds as if you reversed the process.
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm not sure that I did but if I placed the coin down where the ball originally was then put the ball infront of the coin then that could possibly in the wrong spot.
 
I have got into the habit of turning my ball marker over if I need to move it. Increases the chance of remembering to put it back to the correct position.
 
Your overall "problem" is in two parts ...

a) Replacing a ball in a wrong place does not incur a penalty. Playing from a wrong place does. You had not played a stroke at the ball so you did not incur a penalty. So, up to that point, all is fine & it is just incumbent on you to make sure the ball is in the right place.

b) After some deliberation with your opponent, you agreed with him as to what was the correct place to put the ball. After this agreement, it now becomes irrelevant as to whether this is truly the original & correct place. You agreed it is the correct place so it is the correct place. So there can be no penalty for playing from there, and as the others said, the principles of decision 2-5/8.5 apply in that there is no scope for a claim of breach of procedure
 
Just to add - beware playing on just to appease...

Make sure you have a very very clear understanding of exactly what is in question and what the variables are.

In this case I've read the detailed explanation and still don't understand what your opponent was claiming! He cannot make a general claim of I don't think that's right - he has to make a specific claim Inc consequences.
As already established, as you hadn't made a stroke at your ball, and had otherwise met the conditions of lifting and replacing, the actual issue becomes the establishment of a place to play your ball from, in exactly the same way as if he had chipped onto the green and moved your ball ie you agree where to replace it and that becomes the correct spot regardless.
If he was claiming you hadn't followed the requirements for lifting and marking you ball that would be a different claim - but needs to be clear.
Putting this more bluntly, as presented there wasn't any reason to play on at all - if he was claiming you played from a wrong place. If you did he has already won. If you didn't he has lost. At no point is the result of the next hole relevant.
 
duncan mackie said:
Just to add - beware playing on just to appease...

Make sure you have a very very clear understanding of exactly what is in question and what the variables are.

In this case I've read the detailed explanation and still don't understand what your opponent was claiming! He cannot make a general claim of I don't think that's right - he has to make a specific claim Inc consequences.
As already established, as you hadn't made a stroke at your ball, and had otherwise met the conditions of lifting and replacing, the actual issue becomes the establishment of a place to play your ball from, in exactly the same way as if he had chipped onto the green and moved your ball ie you agree where to replace it and that becomes the correct spot regardless.
If he was claiming you hadn't followed the requirements for lifting and marking you ball that would be a different claim - but needs to be clear.
Putting this more bluntly, as presented there wasn't any reason to play on at all - if he was claiming you played from a wrong place. If you did he has already won. If you didn't he has lost. At no point is the result of the next hole relevant.
Click to expand...

I played a 18 year old lad that I know and he was obviously wanting to win ,to be fair to the him he was generally pretty clued up on the rules , but not on this one.

I was a bit surprised when he queried my actions but I was clear in my mind that I didn't breach any rules and won the match.

We had a good match and after I holed my putt I could see that he was disappointed and this is when he questioned my actions again.

I didn't want to finish the match with him feeling I might have breached the rules and he could have won the hole and match

This is the reason I suggested playing another hole and he could ask about the ruling afterwards.

I posted this really knowing the answer but thought I would ask the experts just for peace of mind .
 
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backwoodsman said:
Your overall "problem" is in two parts ...

a) Replacing a ball in a wrong place does not incur a penalty. Playing from a wrong place does. You had not played a stroke at the ball so you did not incur a penalty. So, up to that point, all is fine & it is just incumbent on you to make sure the ball is in the right place.

b) After some deliberation with your opponent, you agreed with him as to what was the correct place to put the ball. After this agreement, it now becomes irrelevant as to whether this is truly the original & correct place. You agreed it is the correct place so it is the correct place. So there can be no penalty for playing from there, and as the others said, the principles of decision 2-5/8.5 apply in that there is no scope for a claim of breach of procedure
Click to expand...

Thankyou , that's exactly the same as I read the situation :thup:
 
The original post says this - on the green my ball was in line of my opponents putt so I moved my ball a putters width and placed a coin on replacing I used the putters width and placed the coin ,as I placed my ball to line up my putt my opponent said I replaced in the wrong spot.

I moved my ball a putters width and placed a coin - Does this meanthat you placed your putter next to the ball, then placed a coin at the end of the putter?replacing I used the putters width and placed the coin - Does this mean that you placed your putter next to the coin, moved the coin to the other end of the putter, then replaced the ball in front of the coin?
 
rulie said:
The original post says this - on the green my ball was in line of my opponents putt so I moved my ball a putters width and placed a coin on replacing I used the putters width and placed the coin ,as I placed my ball to line up my putt my opponent said I replaced in the wrong spot.

I moved my ball a putters width and placed a coin - Does this meanthat you placed your putter next to the ball, then placed a coin at the end of the putter?replacing I used the putters width and placed the coin - Does this mean that you placed your putter next to the coin, moved the coin to the other end of the putter, then replaced the ball in front of the coin?
Click to expand...

Thats correct.

I can see if I had replaced the ball infront of the coin that could be deemed the wrong position.

As I said I decided to place my ball behind the coin which we both agreed on and putt from there.

Its an unusual situation I've never encountered before and will in future replace the ball and not the coin.
 
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Rlburnside said:
Thats correct.

I can see if I had replaced the ball infront of the coin that could be deemed the wrong position.

As I said I decided to place my ball behind the coin which we both agreed on and putt from there.

Its an unusual situation I've never encountered before and will in future replace the ball and not the coin.
Click to expand...
Make certain that you reverse the complete procedure that you used to mark and move the ball or marker.
 
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