Match play Question

[evahakool]

Playing a par 3 player one hits his tee shot into long rough at the back of the green,player two also hits it long,player one says"Im going to hit another ball" this time he hits a good shot to a foot from the pin.

Player two finds his ball and hits a poor shot leaving a long putt for par,then he finds player ones ball and tells him he "must play this ball" player one says "no I didnt say it was a provisional so Im going to play my second ball"

They half the hole with a 4,player two is far from happy and lost the match on the last hole with a half.

Which player is correct with the rules?

 

[chris661]

Player one, you have to state provisional ball saying "I am hitting another" is no good.

 

[richart]

Player one is correct, he didn't say he was playing a provisional, so his second ball was the one in play. Unless I have completely misunderstood what the OP meant, in which case ignore me.

 

[evahakool]

As player one didnt think/want to find his ball he didnt state that he was going to play a provisional.So my understanding of the rules is the second ball he played was now the ball in play.

 

[SocketRocket]

Player 1's first ball was still in play untill he believes it lost and plays a provisional, stating that he is doing this. He does not have to search for his first ball and can declair it lost then play the provisional ball out, if his oponent finds his first ball within 5 minutes and before he has putted out and removed the provisional ball from the hole then he must identify the ball and play it. He must declair the second ball a provisional, he cannot say he is 'playing another'. His only other choice is to declair the first ball unplayable and replay it as such.

 

[chris661]

Player 1's first ball was still in play untill he believes it lost and plays a provisional, stating that he is doing this. He does not have to search for his first ball and can declair it lost then play the provisional ball out, if his oponent finds his first ball within 5 minutes and before he has putted out and removed the provisional ball from the hole then he must identify the ball and play it. He must declair the second ball a provisional, he cannot say he is 'playing another'. His only other choice is to declair the first ball unplayable and replay it as such.

Eh? You dont play a provisional after declaring your ball lost once you have searched for it.

Anyway in the op there was no mention of a provisional. I done the same thing today hit a tee shot on a par three and didn't think I would find it so told the other players "I was hitting another". If anyone else in the group finds my original ball it makes absolutely no difference as I never declared the second ball a provisional which is now the ball in play.

 

[richart]

Must admit in this situation I tell my playing partners that the second ball is not a provisional. No need to, but it just stops any confusion in my mind.

I remember in the Open at St Andrews a few years back a player hit it right down the 17th, and thought he was out of bounds. The marshalls didn't signal it was in play, so he hit another without declaring it a provisional. His first ball was in fact well in bounds, but he had to play the second one. Can't remember the player, but I am sure someone will know.

 

[Brian321]

thought that after hitting 1st in rough, you can declare the 2nd as provitional in case 1st ball is lost or is unplayable.

doesn't this give you the choice to play the 2nd ball (i.e. with penalty) if you deem the 1st ball unplayable if found?

This was said to me during a recent matchplay singles match, although just explaining the rule to me (as he understood it, and he was adamant), rather than following that rule at that time.

So it what I say acceptable or not??

 

[chris661]

No, if you find your first ball after declaring a provisional then the first ball is in play and the provisional is irrelevant.

 

[SocketRocket]

No, if you find your first ball after declaring a provisional then the first ball is in play and the provisional is irrelevant.

Not if the provisional has been holed out and removed from the cup before the original has been found. The player does not have to search for his ball, he can declair it lost and play out the provisional, but as I said earlier, if his opponent finds the original ball before the provo has been holed out and removed then the player must identify it and play it.

 

[Twire]

No, if you find your first ball after declaring a provisional then the first ball is in play and the provisional is irrelevant.

Not if the provisional has been holed out and removed from the cup before the original has been found. The player does not have to search for his ball, he can declare it lost and play out the provisional, but as I said earlier, if his opponent finds the original ball before the provo has been holed out and removed then the player must identify it and play it.

Think you need to have a read of the rules.

You don't need to hole out the provisional for it to become the ball in play. If the provisional is played from a position closer to the hole than the original ball then it automatically becomes the ball in play. Oh and you can't declare a ball lost. It is deemed lost when the provisional becomes the ball in play.

Back to the OP. If the 3 off the tee wasn't declared a provisional then that's the ball in play, whether the original is found or not.

 

[MashieNiblick]

He must declair the second ball a provisional, he cannot say he is 'playing another'. His only other choice is to declair the first ball unplayable and replay it as such.

You do not have to declare the second ball as a provisional. You can put a second ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance at any time.

27-1 - Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

"a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e. proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.
Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance."

So in fact you can "mulligan" at any time, so long as you pay for it!

Playing a provisional ball is an option but it is not mandatory. The Rules provide that a player "may" play a provisional

27-2 - Provisional Ball

"a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1 . The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost."

 

[chrisd]

The player does not have to search for his ball, he can declair it lost and play out the provisional, but as I said earlier, if his opponent finds the original ball before the provo has been holed out and removed then the player must identify it and play it.

Wrong! there is no way that you can declare a ball lost.

You dont have to look for it but if anyone finds it in bounds and you have to play it. Other have said though, if you play the the provisional a second time when its nearer the hole, then it becomes the ball in play.

Chris

 

[bladeplayer]

Simple thing in this as Chris said is that as the player did not declare the second ball as a provisional , it automaticaly becomes the ball in play no mater where the 1st ball is .. mayb the one exception would be a hole in one with the 1st ball as the hole was finished , the prov wouldnt count.. surely you could see the hole in 1 tho..

@BRIAN321 On a side if he did declare it then found his 1st ball IN play , automaticly the prov is then OUT of play & cant be played.. if the first ball is unplayable , he can drop back in line with the flag . 2 club lenghts not nearer the hole , or back to the tee again, all under penalty.. 2nd ball can not come into play ..

 

[DCB]

Okay then, just to spice it up...

Player A hits his first ball into the deep boonies behind the short par3 hole he is playing. He says to his fellow competitor,"I'll play a provisional" sets the ball on the tee and plays a shot with the provisional. The provisional bounces on the front of the green and rolls up and into the hole.

Player A wanders down the fairway thinking, " bet I find my first one" As he passes the flag, he picks his ball out of the hole. He carrys on to the back of the green and sure enough eh sees his first ball in the boonies, just behind the green.

What happens next ?

 

[Naybrains]

Gotta play the first ball since he's found it big man, regardless where the provisional ended up......



???then again because he picked his second ball out he hole is that him completed the hole and holed-out for a 3 ?

 

[cheezburga]

Gotta play the first ball since he's found it big man, regardless where the provisional ended up......



???then again because he picked his second ball out he hole is that him completed the hole and holed-out for a 3 ?

Provided it's done before the original is found, the provisional ball is "in play" once it's picked out of the hole - so the hole is completed. It's then irrelevant if the original ball is found afterwards

 

[chrisd]

I read the decisions and the answer is ......


In equity (Rule 1-4) the provisional ball becomes the ball in play as soon as A picks it out of the hole, provided his original ball has not already been found in bounds within five minutes of B starting to search for it.

So I interpret that to be, that it is the right of his opponents to search for 5 minutes and require him to play it if they find it. bearing in mind that he could chip in for 2 and save one shot on his provisional!


Chris

 

[bladeplayer]

Okay then, just to spice it up...

Player A hits his first ball into the deep boonies behind the short par3 hole he is playing. He says to his fellow competitor,"I'll play a provisional" sets the ball on the tee and plays a shot with the provisional. The provisional bounces on the front of the green and rolls up and into the hole.

Player A wanders down the fairway thinking, " bet I find my first one" As he passes the flag, he picks his ball out of the hole. He carrys on to the back of the green and sure enough eh sees his first ball in the boonies, just behind the green.

What happens next ?

If he finds the 1st ball within 5 min of geting there thats back in play,, provisional doesnt count, although he has finished the hole with the prov technicaly it is still a prov & not officialy in play until the 5 min allowed for the search of the origional has elapsed

 

[DCB]

In equity (Rule 1-4) the provisional ball becomes the ball in play as soon as A picks it out of the hole, provided his original ball has not already been found in bounds within five minutes of B starting to search for it.

Key words.... "provided his ball has not already been found"

So A picks his Provisional out of the hole as he walks over the green, B has not yet found the original ball, therefore the Provisional has become the ball in play and is holed for a 3.