Marking the ball on the green on your oppo's line?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We don't need to ask the experts, you're being told the right thing which you could easily check!

Rule 10 - 1 b + c

After both players have started play of the hole, the ball farther from the hole is played first. If the balls are equidistant from the hole or their positions relative to the hole are not determinable, the ball to be played first should be decided by lot.

Slightly off on a tangent from the OP - but from the above - note that there is no mention of the green. So many seem to think that if they are 10ft away but off the green and I am 20ft away on the green - they play first because they are off the green. Oh well. I've never asked for a shot to be taken back if my opponent plays when closer, but off the green, and he hasn't asked me. One day I will.

 

[patricks148]

WTF has this to do with the op?

 

[North Mimms]

Slightly off on a tangent from the OP - but from the above - note that there is no mention of the green. So many seem to think that if they are 10ft away but off the green and I am 20ft away on the green - they play first because they are off the green. Oh well. I've never asked for a shot to be taken back if my opponent plays when closer, but off the green, and he hasn't asked me. One day I will.

WTF has this to do with the op?

It is all info for when you are playing against a git, like you did.

A lot of people think order of play is off the green first, followed by on the green, mainly because most play this order in social golf, and frequently in strokeplay golf as it speeds up play.
Some might make the mistake when playing a match of playing first when off the green.
But if your git of an oppo was on the green, but further from the hole, it would be his turn to play.... and you can guess what could happen if you holed your putt from off the green...

 

[patricks148]

It is all info for when you are playing against a git, like you did.

A lot of people think order of play is off the green first, followed by on the green, mainly because most play this order in social golf, and frequently in strokeplay golf as it speeds up play.
Some might make the mistake when playing a match of playing first when off the green.
But if your git of an oppo was on the green, but further from the hole, it would be his turn to play.... and you can guess what could happen if you holed your putt from off the green...

I'm not sure what order of play has to do with the orig post. this was a question about marking the ball, not i repeat , not. nothing to do wth order of play.

if you are interested in a post about order of play start one, please don't just hijack someone elses question.

 

[the hammer]

It is all info for when you are playing against a git, like you did.

A lot of people think order of play is off the green first, followed by on the green, mainly because most play this order in social golf, and frequently in strokeplay golf as it speeds up play.
Some might make the mistake when playing a match of playing first when off the green.
But if your git of an oppo was on the green, but further from the hole, it would be his turn to play.... and you can guess what could happen if you holed your putt from off the green...

I was pulled with this type scenario, i was off green, two others on green but furthur away, i was asked flag in or out, to which i replied out please. As i wanted flag out, it then went to furthest away plays first.

whether thats correct, idont know.

BTW, turning over your marker is a great tip, thanks.

 

[Colin L]

Firstly, my apologies to all for overstepping the mark earlier in this thread with an unacceptable word, earning me my first ever rebuke from a moderator on any of the many forums I've taken part in. If the smilies were working, there would be a very red-faced one here.

On the matter of remembering that you have marked away from the spot the ball was on, my own practice is to hold my putter upside down by the head.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm not sure what order of play has to do with the orig post. this was a question about marking the ball, not i repeat , not. nothing to do wth order of play.

if you are interested in a post about order of play start one, please don't just hijack someone elses question.

@patricks148 - what caused that rant ???

I said my post was at a slight tangent to the OP - but only a slight one. The order of play was very much an aspect of the OP as he could have just tapped in if order of play was not properly understood by either player - and hence the issue with the ball-marker would not have arisen.

As it happens I would not turn a marker upside down despite anything my opponent was up to - just not good form - and don't stoop.

 

[Phil2511]

I'm not sure what order of play has to do with the orig post. this was a question about marking the ball, not i repeat , not. nothing to do wth order of play.

if you are interested in a post about order of play start one, please don't just hijack someone elses question.

A bit harsh there, perhaps it this kind of attitude that brought your loss of hole about in the first place.

 

[doublebogey7]

If your marker is interfering with an opponent's or a fellow competitor's play, you should move it at his request. If I remember rightly there isn't a rule directly stating that, but given that the marker is standing in for the ball and that Rule 22-2 explicitly gives a player the right to have a ball moved if it is interfering with his play, the right to have the marker moved is, in my view, implicit. Also the Note to Rule 20-1 makes that assumption:

If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.​

The Forward to the Rules of golf states the below.

may = optional
should = recommendation
must = instruction (and penalty if not carried out)

Therefore there would be no penalty for refusing to move your marker. Not sure though that anyone should stoop so low no matter what the provocation.

 

[Slab]

I'm not sure what order of play has to do with the orig post. this was a question about marking the ball, not i repeat , not. nothing to do wth order of play.

if you are interested in a post about order of play start one, please don't just hijack someone elses question.

Medic! Medic! man down in here. Hogan has taken a severe cutting
Off to start other thread lest comments do not meet OP's criteria

On topic, Do you have to move your marker if its on your oppo's line? Yup, for no other reason than fairplay, spirit of the game & sportsmanship

 

[patricks148]

A bit harsh there, perhaps it this kind of attitude that brought your loss of hole about in the first place.

Not at all, my op was about marking the ball on the green, all of a sudden people are posting on it about order of play which was not asked.

I justed wanted answers about marking the ball and I don't see why people are posting off this topic?

 

[MashieNiblick]

Order of play came into it because someone asked why you didn't simply hole out rather than marking your ball as you were only a foot away.

It was then explained that as it was a match, order of play Rule (10-1) prevented you from exercising that option. It was that which gave your oppo the opportunity to pull the stunt he did (and to me it almost seems seems like he set a trap fo you).

In stroke play you could have holed out by excercising your right under Rule 22-2 to play out of turn rather than lift your ball.

So although it wasn't the exact point you raised it was in some ways the underlying cause of the situation so I think there is some relevance to the incident you described.

By the way there was previously a thread which touched on the issue of whether you have to move your marker if asked (that one also started out with a different question!) Take a look here at post 28 onwards.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?43517-Marking-ball-on-green/page3

 

[Colin L]

The Forward to the Rules of golf states the below.

may = optional
should = recommendation
must = instruction (and penalty if not carried out)

Therefore there would be no penalty for refusing to move your marker. Not sure though that anyone should stoop so low no matter what the provocation.

I'm well aware of the differences in these words, of course, but it is arguable that the should in

If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side relates to the way in which the marker should be moved, the moving of it being taken as a requirement - implicit, as I believe, in the requirement to move your ball if it interferes with play. On that argument, you have to move it on request, but it is recommended that you do it by measuring in club-head lengths. You could, if you chose, measure in some other way - by lengths of a score card for instance.​

If that argument is not convincing, then a player who breaches etiquette persistently can be disqualified under Rule 33-7.

 

[Colin L]

I also recollect in the thread MashieNiblick references above, suggesting the refusal to move the marker could be a breach of Rule 1-2 (stop smiling, Duncan) in that deliberately leaving it in your line of putt would be an attempt to influence the movement of the ball.

I just can't imagine it happening, though.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Just had a look through the earlier thread and noticed Colin had referred to Decision 20-1/11 Ball-Marker in Position to Assist Another Player

Q. A player marks the position of his ball on the putting green and the ball-marker is so located that it might be of assistance to the opponent or a fellow-competitor in lining up his putt. Accordingly, the player prepares to move his ball-marker one or two clubhead-lengths to the side, but the opponent or fellow-competitor says he wants the ballmarker left where it is. What is the ruling?

A. The player is entitled to move his ball-marker to the side. The opponent or fellow-competitor may not insist on its being left where it is in view of the purposes of Rules 8-2b and 22-1.

DuncanM I think made the point that the reference there to Rule 22-1 - Ball Assisting Play - in relation to a player's right to move a marker that he thinks might assist an opponent, suggests by analogy that the opponent has an equivalent right. I would agree and also think that would apply both in relation to 22-1 and 22-2 Ball - Interfering with Play.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Medic! Medic! man down in here. Hogan has taken a severe cutting

SILH struggles to his feet and dusts himself down - no harm done - au contraire. I have increased hopes for this morning's roll up. Hogan was in a car accident in 1949. This accident left him with a double-fracture of the pelvis, a fractured collar bone, a left ankle fracture, a chipped rib, and near-fatal blood clots: he would suffer lifelong circulation problems and other physical limitations. So in 1953 he enters 6 competitions (inc three majors) and wins five of them. Watch out lads.

 

[williamalex1]

bring back the old stymie rules.problem sorted

 

[North Mimms]

@patricks148 - what caused that rant ???

I said my post was at a slight tangent to the OP - but only a slight one. The order of play was very much an aspect of the OP as he could have just tapped in if order of play was not properly understood by either player - and hence the issue with the ball-marker would not have arisen.

As it happens I would not turn a marker upside down despite anything my opponent was up to - just not good form - and don't stoop.

The suggestion to turn marker upside down was as an aid to remember that marker had been moved to one side.
The suggestion to do it a marker which had a peg underneath was a joke.

I use the flat markers which come on a magnet on some Footjoy gloves.
I actually have marked an arrow in thick felt tip on the reverse to tell me - marker has been moved and direction to replace it.

 

[MashieNiblick]

The suggestion to turn marker upside down was as an aid to remember that marker had been moved to one side.

I use the flat markers which come on a magnet on some Footjoy gloves.
I actually have marked an arrow in thick felt tip on the reverse to tell me - marker has been moved and direction to replace it.

Clever.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The suggestion to turn marker upside down was as an aid to remember that marker had been moved to one side.
The suggestion to do it a marker which had a peg underneath was a joke.

I use the flat markers which come on a magnet on some Footjoy gloves.
I actually have marked an arrow in thick felt tip on the reverse to tell me - marker has been moved and direction to replace it.

Ah - good idea. Though I have a FJ glove with one of these markers I still use my old trusted marker.

Anyway - yesterday was the one in six I didn't win. Though I did take the money in our 4ball . And reflecting on a thought often expressed. Don't you just love and hate golf. Used to be off 6 - and then took 10 yrs off - so started again playing about 18. Now back to the half-way house of 11 - and yes 50% of the time (yesterday) was hitting 6 h/c player shots - blinders - and other 50% of the time hitting 18 h/c shots - ooopsers. Keep working - will be back to s/f by June next year.