marking Ball on the green

[3offTheTee]

Played in anawful gail last weekend. My parter was about to address the ball; he had not grounded the club and it moved 3 times. On each occasion he played from where the ball eventually ended up. Is this correct?

Could he have marked his ball and putted over the ball marker and if this was the case returned the ball to the original place which I doubt?

 

[birdieman]

I presume you are talking about putting here?

If he addressed the ball and the ball moved it's a penalty, Paul Casey had this at the Masters this year. He doesn't need to ground the club only address the ball for a penalty to occur if the ball moves.

He should replace the ball to its original position under a one shot penalty as he's addressed it.

If this happened 3 times that's 3 penalty shots.

You cannot putt over a marker, that's cheating.

To be honest it sounds like the course was unplayable if the ball won't stay still on the green and any match should have been abandoned.

I don't understand why the ball would only move when the player addressed it and not when he was yards away from it if it was so windy???

 

[viscount17]

Can't find anything in the rules on this, odd as it must occur daily.

18-1 deals with balls moved by an Outside Agency but elsewhere: 'An outside agency includes a referee, a marker, an observer and a forecaddie. Neither wind nor water is an outside agency.'

Otherwise there seems only to be mention of balls moved by another ball, an opponent, etc. I assume that as it is not mentioned you must play from where it lies.

birdie, rules say that 'A player has “addressed the ball’’ when he has taken his stance and has also grounded his club, except that in a hazard a player has addressed the ball when he has taken his stance.' So in this case as he had not grounded surely there can be no penalty?

 

[bunkered]

Birdie what rule book are you reading, you should know better playing of that handicap, the player has addressed the ball when he has taken his stance and grounded his club, except in a hazard.

 

[birdieman]

Viscount, pretty sure it's just addressing the ball because many players never ground the club instead float the club before the backswing, Greg Norman was famous for it.

 

[3offTheTee]

Understand about adressing the ball and grounding the club.

The player had NOT grounded the club and the club was hovering 1 cmm from the ground.

Basically what I am asking is if he had not grounded the club, which he had not does he play the ball from where it ends up?

The course was unplayable birdieman. We came 3rd with 36 points in a 4BB my partner playing off 2.

What was worse was there was only 1 '2' which was worth 96 balls. I had the other and I paid for the other 3 in my Group to enter the 2's. Do not enter because I think the pro rips people off and there is a principle involved. Only lost 48 balls!!!!

 

[DCB]

Is the ball marked with a marker?

If not and it moves due to the wind and you have not addressed the ball, then you play it as it lies don't you?

Did Monty not get some help from the wind some time ago ?

 

[backwoodsman]

Played in anawful gail last weekend. My parter was about to address the ball; he had not grounded the club and it moved 3 times. On each occasion he played from where the ball eventually ended up. Is this correct?

Could he have marked his ball and putted over the ball marker and if this was the case returned the ball to the original place which I doubt?

The clue is in the "about to address and not grounded the club" - which means he had not addressed the ball. (see definition of addressing the ball in the rules}. So there is no penalty and you play the ball as it lies.

Moreover, if there is reasonably strong evidence that the ball was moved by the wind (and not by the player) then there is no penalty even if he had addressed the ball. The penalty only applies if the player moves it - or causes it to be moved

 

[viscount17]

Moreover, if there is reasonably strong evidence that the ball was moved by the wind (and not by the player) then there is no penalty even if he had addressed the ball. The penalty only applies if the player moves it - or causes it to be moved

the rules specifically <u>exclude</u> the wind as an outside agency, which is the only mitigating factor, and had he addressed the ball he would be deemed to have caused it to move.

 

[StuartD]

Did Monty not get some help from the wind some time ago ?

Yes he did. On the 15th at Kingsbarns during the Dunhill. Think he had marked his ball and replaced it. Was about to stand over it and noticed the ball was rocking in the wind. He stepped back and the ball started to role down the hill towards the hole. It took about 20 mins to get a ruling.

He played it from where it finished

 

[backwoodsman]

the rules specifically <u>exclude</u> the wind as an outside agency, which is the only mitigating factor, and had he addressed the ball he would be deemed to have caused it to move.

Viscount: Quite right - wind is not an outside agency - but that's not the point. There's (sort of) three ways the ball can move.
1. By the player (inc partner, caddie, equipment etc) for which there's a penalty.
2. By an outside agency - in which case there's no penalty but the ball is replaced (to where it was moved from).
3. It just moves - in the wind, by a big spatter of rain, a sudden tidal wave, by magic or whatever. In which case there's no penalty & you just play it from where it ends up. Hence Monty's good luck (if that's what it was)

Penalties only apply if the player (etc etc) causes the ball to move. Which under "equity" is the right thing. But also under equity there has to be good evidence that it wasn't moved by the player - else they would be deemed to have done it him/herself.