Marine A - Right or wrong?

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Seems I'm a little late on this one....but in my opinion this should never have even gone to trial.
 
NWJocko said:
TBH (and I'm no legal expert obviously) part of what I struggle with this is the application of "Murder" to a war situation...... Surely every killing in a war zone is premeditated to an extent, i.e. you shoot with the intention to kill (according to rules etc). What about Special Forces who set out specifically to kill a particular target in an operation?

I think this muddies the waters (in terms of general public understanding at least) in this case as civilian terminology/expectations/definitions around charge and sentence etc are being considered in a civilian context rather than the circumstances in which this happened.

I've no answers as to how to resolve that right enough but phrases like "8 years is lenient for Murder" I struggle with in this context.....
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In regards special forces and also drone targets etc - they would have gone through lawyers etc to ensure they are legal targets and there is no repercussions on the legal front

It is a minefield and it's why each person has their green and white card drummed into them - they say any action you do you have to ensure you are able to justify your action in a court of law

When it comes to war zones or conflict zones the guys get acclimatised to the situation and can judge when they can fire their weapon

In regards Marine a - was what he did premeditated? Or was it a spur of the moment reactionary ? Was it something that he had planned to do when the chance came along ? . The court seemed to believe it was premeditated and some of what he says and does would back that up. But believe myself that it wasn't premeditated and that he momentary snapped and took advantage of a situation to maybe exact a bit of revenge ? So for me that's manslaughter
 
Just trying to bit a bit of context on the whole political/legal case that always seems to come the way of the armed forces,

Known terrorists that took the life of more SF pers in NI UK and Europe than were lost in the last two conflicts and were responsible for the death and maiming of god knows how many innocent civilians get free get out of jail cards.

Members of the armed forces are pursued, some 40 years after a full investigation into an incident and others including the good Sgt are hung out to dry by the establishment.

I was in the Citadel in Plymouth yesterday and to see the outrage of present serving soldiers was an eye opener even though they understand fully the rights and wrongs of this case.

No other country treats its AF this way.
 
Old Skier said:
Just trying to bit a bit of context on the whole political/legal case that always seems to come the way of the armed forces,

Known terrorists that took the life of more SF pers in NI UK and Europe than were lost in the last two conflicts and were responsible for the death and maiming of god knows how many innocent civilians get free get out of jail cards.

Members of the armed forces are pursued, some 40 years after a full investigation into an incident and others including the good Sgt are hung out to dry by the establishment.

I was in the Citadel in Plymouth yesterday and to see the outrage of present serving soldiers was an eye opener even though they understand fully the rights and wrongs of this case.

No other country treats its AF this way.
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And no one should be above the law which seem to be the view of some one here, nor is the fact that somethng happened a long time ago reason not to look into it now.
 
guest100718 said:
And no one should be above the law which seem to be the view of some one here, nor is the fact that somethng happened a long time ago reason not to look into it now.
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The NI issues regarding those now being arrested have all been dealt with by a full legal process and the individuals concerned were cleared af any wrong doing.

The get out of free jail letters issued by our political and legal masters and the same could have been done in this case.
 
Old Skier said:
The NI issues regarding those now being arrested have all been dealt with by a full legal process and the individuals concerned were cleared af any wrong doing.

The get out of free jail letters issued by our political and legal masters and the same could have been done in this case.
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I know all about NI
 
guest100718 said:
And no one should be above the law which seem to be the view of some one here, nor is the fact that somethng happened a long time ago reason not to look into it now.
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Which is fine in principle, just not in reality.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
It is a minefield and it's why each person has their green and white card drummed into them - they say any action you do you have to ensure you are able to justify your action in a court of law

When it comes to war zones or conflict zones the guys get acclimatised to the situation and can judge when they can fire their weapon
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That's a hell of a general comment and you certainly can't qualify it in any way, I never felt 'acclimatised' whilst in any war or conflict zone, irrelevant if it was my 1st, 2nd or 3rd tour to the same country or area. So, when you say 'the guys', who are you referring to? I would never make such a comment towards any of my troops or platoons, in fact I would be encouraging quite the opposite as its complacency that gets you killed! There's a delicate balance when faced with a shoot don't shoot situation and personally I'd rather be on the edge when making that decision, not acclimatised where I may feel too comfortable and take too long making that decisive decision putting myself and everyone else around me at risk, this is why there are amendments to many ROE when serving in various countries as they have to be adopted for each operation and conflict, they can't just be a legal document to suit lawyers, IMO! You may feel acclimatised if your firing and receiving fire from great distances but when you're that close in OP's or simply that close you can smell them, acclimatisation is something I would strongly not advise!

This isn't a pop Phil, I'm speaking as someone who has had to make quick snap calls and the last thing I think about is any legal consequence or anything that may or may have been drummed into me at basic training or pre-tour training camps if we had time, I would always put my men and myself safe first, anything and everything else is/was secondary.

You also mention the White Card, I didn't mention this colour card before as it was born from the US Marines (beirut) in the early 80's along with the Blue card, but you make it sound like it's a general ROE colour card, is it, I wasn't aware it was rolled out amongst all the services, especially as they were both written and adapted specifically for a specific conflict. I certainly didn't come across it/them and I was very active throughout the 80's and operated under very different colour or predetermined drafted ROE orders but I wasn't aware we had a joint white ROE, unless it's new or just for the RAF!?
 
Fish said:
That's a hell of a general comment and you certainly can't qualify it in any way, I never felt 'acclimatised' whilst in any war or conflict zone, irrelevant if it was my 1st, 2nd or 3rd tour to the same country or area. So, when you say 'the guys', who are you referring to? I would never make such a comment towards any of my troops or platoons, in fact I would be encouraging quite the opposite as its complacency that gets you killed! There's a delicate balance when faced with a shoot don't shoot situation and personally I'd rather be on the edge when making that decision, not acclimatised where I may feel too comfortable and take too long making that decisive decision putting myself and everyone else around me at risk, this is why there are amendments to many ROE when serving in various countries as they have to be adopted for each operation and conflict, they can't just be a legal document to suit lawyers, IMO! You may feel acclimatised if your firing and receiving fire from great distances but when you're that close in OP's or simply that close you can smell them, acclimatisation is something I would strongly not advise!

This isn't a pop Phil, I'm speaking as someone who has had to make quick snap calls and the last thing I think about is any legal consequence or anything that may or may have been drummed into me at basic training or pre-tour training camps if we had time, I would always put my men and myself safe first, anything and everything else is/was secondary.

You also mention the White Card, I didn't mention this colour card before as it was born from the US Marines (beirut) in the early 80's along with the Blue card, but you make it sound like it's a general ROE colour card, is it, I wasn't aware it was rolled out amongst all the services, especially as they were both written and adapted specifically for a specific conflict. I certainly didn't come across it/them and I was very active throughout the 80's and operated under very different colour or predetermined drafted ROE orders but I wasn't aware we had a joint white ROE, unless it's new or just for the RAF!?
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Acclimatised = knowing from experience and the best training possible how to deal when faced with all situations and knowing through experience and again the best training possible when to fire your weapon. Not complacency or getting comfortable but basically having trust in the Armed Forces to do the right thing at the right time to the best of their ability.

White card was your RoE - it was adapted for different situations and always went hand in hand with your Green Card which was your authority to carry firearms.
 
Great news for Sgt Blackman and his family, Murder conviction downgraded to Manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

Sentence to be reviewed at a date tba.

Hopefully walk free with time served.
 
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