Manchester Terrorist Attack!

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I meant to say in modern law.

I have no problem people choosing a religion to govern their daily lives. But it shouldn't be used as law. Or used by religious people to claim some sort of morale outrage.

Nobody here is going to be making any laws - but people have their own views and it is these views at which my observation was made.

We do not make for a stable nation by taking actions and putting in place measures that risk driving a wedge between various sections in our society. That there are a few in our country intent on exploiting our differences to fracture our country is a fact. But this can only be exacerbated by driving in further wedges by stigmatising, antagonising and ultimately alienating minority communities, when we should be identifying, exploiting and celebrating our similarities. In this way those that seek to exploit the differences expose themselves for what they are.

And I did say that for many my views would be irrelevant.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm fed up with the apparent need to consider everyone's feelings and fear of offending anyone when trying to deal with these situations.

22 people died earlier this week. I don't give a stuff if dozens/hundreds/thousands of people are offended or inconvenienced by the solution.

5 people dies in a crash on the M6 on Wednesday morning - where is the outrage. Each person is an individual. That more died on Monday does not make the pain the friends and family of those who died in the crash any less.

Would you be happy for speed limits on motorways to be reduced to 40mph? - something that would cause much inconvenience but might well make less likely such terrible loss of life as of Wed morning.

 

[Papas1982]

Nobody here is going to be making any laws - but people have their own views and it is these views at which my observation was made.

We do not make for a stable nation by taking actions and putting in place measures that risk driving a wedge between various sections in our society. That there are a few in our country intent on exploiting our differences to fracture our country is a fact. But this can only be exacerbated by driving in further wedges by stigmatising, antagonising and ultimately alienating minority communities, when we should be identifying, exploiting and celebrating our similarities. In this way those that seek to exploit the differences expose themselves for what they are.

And I did say that for many my views would be irrelevant.

And as I said. My observation is religious people crying morale indignation.

Peoples opinions on here aren't from a Christian POV, a Muslim POV, a Jewish POV. They're making them froma humanitarian POV.

As you said. Some views a very unchristian. That in itself makes it sound like the Christian view is such a wonderful one. Like christians have done no wrong? 😂😂😂

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Absolutely because for all their flaws they're not stupid. And you'd have to be stupid to adopt policies that would only make the situation worse.

Our country is what it is because we believe in the rule of law and human rights and we stand up and defend that even when it might seem expedient to do otherwise.

If they make us change our principles, our way of life the terrorists will have won.

Absolutely spot on.

Many here seem hell-bent on wanting actions and measures taken to protect 'our way of life', when these actions are IMO counter to the values and principles that underpin 'our way of life' and hence will simply undermine it. And eventually much of what we hold dear about living in the UK and that makes us British will collapse. And it will be gone - never to regained.

 

[Papas1982]

5 people dies in a crash on the M6 on Wednesday morning - where is the outrage. Each person is an individual. That more died on Monday does not make the pain the friends and family of those who died in the crash any less.

Would you be happy for speed limits on motorways to be reduced to 40mph? - something that would cause much inconvenience but might well make less likely such terrible loss of life as of Wed morning.

Dealing with a loved ones death is never easy.

But speaking from experience. Long term it's easier to deal with it if it was a tragic accident and not due through malicious intent.

Road accidents are going to happen through pure statistics. People blowing people up should not.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And as I said. My observation is religious people crying morale indignation.

Peoples opinions on here aren't from a Christian POV, a Muslim POV, a Jewish POV. They're making them froma humanitarian POV.

As you said. Some views a very unchristian. That in itself makes it sound like the Christian view is such a wonderful one. Like christians have done no wrong? 😂😂😂

I'm not crying morale indignation - I'm simply saying that much of what is said and proposed here has been distinctly unChristian - and that is fine. But I think we ignore or dismiss basic British principles and values at our peril.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Dealing with a loved ones death is never easy.

But speaking from experience. Long term it's easier to deal with it if it was a tragic accident and not due through malicious intent.

Road accidents are going to happen through pure statistics. People blowing people up should not.

But they will. And aircraft should never crash - but they do.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The way your post came across I read it as that is what you were implying. If that is not the case then why is Brexit terrifying?

because the way immigration will be dealt with, and the way existing and new immigrants will be viewed will change - especially when immigration does not reduce as many expect. I fear antagonism will rise.

 

[Foxholer]

Absolutely because for all their flaws they're not stupid. And you'd have to be stupid to adopt policies that would only make the situation worse.

Our country is what it is because we believe in the rule of law and human rights and we stand up and defend that even when it might seem expedient to do otherwise.

If they make us change our principles, our way of life the terrorists will have won.

:clap: :clap:

My attitude entirely!

Maybe this article (from 'Seizing Travel Documents') will demonstrate that SOME powers exist that COULD curtail some of these atrocities! Not all encompassing, but pretty good given 'British values'! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40046562 And those that have their TDs or Passport confiscated will almost certainly be on some sort of watch list!

FWIW. I was very close (next tube I believe) to the Aldgate one in 7/7/05!

 

[Old Skier]

:clap: :clap:

My attitude entirely!ery

You sound like someone from the legal profession, the only ones that gain from some of our badly made laws.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

because the way immigration will be dealt with, and the way existing and new immigrants will be viewed will change - especially when immigration does not reduce as many expect. I fear antagonism will rise.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The only things that will change (if there ARE any changes) will be a stop put on unskilled people coming here to work and a clampdown on possible terrorists. Other than that it will be carry on as we are. Many foreigners make a big contribution to our society, why should we stop that?

 

[Old Skier]

Michelle O'Neil signs the book of condolences. Seems she has a short memory and it's now unacceptable to bomb innocent people in Manchester.

 

[guest100718]

Michelle O'Neil signs the book of condolences. Seems she has a short memory and it's now unacceptable to bomb innocent people in Manchester.

probably best mates with Corbyn.

 

[Papas1982]

But they will. And aircraft should never crash - but they do.

An accident should not be judged the same as an act of intent.

 

[Old Skier]

Well our Jeeza along with a few here confirm the whole terrorists threat is because of the armed forces. Oh hang on, jihad nutters started blowing up westerners long before our involvement in the middle east.

This is the man who wants to be the leader of the UK.

 

[Kellfire]

Well our Jeeza along with a few here confirm the whole terrorists threat is because of the armed forces. Oh hang on, jihad nutters started blowing up westerners long before our involvement in the middle east.

This is the man who wants to be the leader of the UK.

The ex-head of MI5 agreed with Corbyn. Maybe MI5 don't know anything about these matters...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Well our Jeeza along with a few here confirm the whole terrorists threat is because of the armed forces. Oh hang on, jihad nutters started blowing up westerners long before our involvement in the middle east.

This is the man who wants to be the leader of the UK.

Nice play on words, not really what he said was it!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

An accident should not be judged the same as an act of intent.

Good point. There are loaaads more accidents than acts of intent. Probably worth focusing on them first. No cars about 40mph. Or in fact, no cars at all. Trains, planes and bikes. That is guaranteed to save more lives. Anything else we can do?

 

[Junior]

5 people dies in a crash on the M6 on Wednesday morning - where is the outrage. Each person is an individual. That more died on Monday does not make the pain the friends and family of those who died in the crash any less.

Would you be happy for speed limits on motorways to be reduced to 40mph? - something that would cause much inconvenience but might well make less likely such terrible loss of life as of Wed morning.

Both are tragedies in their own right, and the pain the families feel are not lessened in any way. I don't know the specifics of what happened on the M6 (was a car speeding ? was someone on their mobile phone ?) but to strip it back to that level and compare what was effectively an tragic accident to a cold, calculated act of terrorism (murder) is ridiculous, wrong and disrespectful to those involved in the atrocities this week.

We have to separate the terms 'terrorists' and 'muslim'. We must treat these wasters as humans and punish them with the laws of our land, and the laws need strengthening. We need to give our authorities the resources to investigate and PREVENT these acts of terrorism. As I said previously, 8 people are now being detained in relation to the attack, and, the attacker was already known to be associated with terrorism. What do they know now that they didn't know last week ????? Whatever powers we need to give the authorities to pro-actively act as opposed to reactively act, need to be given. I'm not saying detention without cause, but something stronger that we do not have today needs to be in place.

A final point on separating muslims from terrorism. There are muslims who contribute to our society and communities in multiple capacities. it upsets me to think that muslim children in schools might be bullied because of the events that occurred this week. These fanatics are a minority, and every muslim friend I have or work with condemn these attacks as we do.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well our Jeeza along with a few here confirm the whole terrorists threat is because of the armed forces. Oh hang on, jihad nutters started blowing up westerners long before our involvement in the middle east.

This is the man who wants to be the leader of the UK.

How many Jihad nutters killed Brits in the U.K. Before the wars in Iraq , Syria , Afghan , Libya ?

The US have been involved in the Middle East for years hence Jihad nutters have attacked them