Manchester Terrorist Attack!

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree, the surprising thing is the area of Manchester that this cretin was from in Manchester is very much multicultural and inclusive, it's not what you see in areas of Oldham, Rochdale and parts of West Yorkshire and Lancashire which can be intimidating to drive through never mind walk through

Rather like how I felt about areas of Glasgow in the 60s and 70s - areas that had a 'culture' rather different from mine, and as a result areas that we never went near...however four decades on things have changed. But it takes a long time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Some people have a very short attention span. Christian's in the U.K. have been blowing up members of the public including women and children since I can remember but I don't see people putting religious tags on these terrorists.

eh? if you refer to the IRA and the UDA/UFF etc I think these groups were clearly identified as being from the Catholic and Protestant communities - but as you know the issue was not one of religion.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

this thread shows exactly why this situation wont improve for a long time....we as a country are too soft, too frightened to upset/offend anyone, anyone who stands and says what they believe is branded a bigot and a racist.

A day will come when something snaps and we will have a civil war. It wont be pretty.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Phil, whilst I can see your point, a line has been crossed, people born here, of immigrant parents who openly demonstrate against our way of life, have in my view, renounced their British citizenship.
They either integrate into British society and accept our way of life, or they are free to leave,
There can be no middle ground, yes it's not going to be easy, but unless the communities where these people live start outing those who are the problem, we need to start doing it ourselves.

The time to be politically correct has passed, we need a measured response that sends a message to the communities that we will not tolerate this type of hate crime on our shores .

Bit like anarchists then - yup - chuck em out or lock em up...just one step along the road we go...

 

[Fish]

We don't get the opportunity to punish them, they blow themselves up along with innocent civilians!!

 

[chrisd]

Bit like anarchists then - yup - chuck em out or lock em up...just one step along the road we go...

There might just be a slight difference between someone marching to ban the bomb and someone else conversing with known Islamic Terrorists!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is absolutely no way to avoid these sorts of incidents completely unless we develop the ability to read minds.

Resorting to bully boy tactics where we deport anyone with a funny accent, brown skin or he refuses to bend the knee to the Union flag is empty rhetoric that always gets stirred up after such a terrible event.

The best thing we can do is continue to press for peace and help those who come from a different background to integrate into our country. People may well be hurt along the way but that is the way of the world. Some things are inevitable; you will NEVER expunge hate and fear from society. We can only try to minimize it through an inclusive attitude that seeks to learn and benefit from each other.

That may sound like idealistic nonsense but it's the truth.

...and maybe also cut off relationships and accept the economic hit that would result from stopping arms supplies to Saudi Arabia...where Wahhabism is the dominate and very severe version of Islam from which the Salafi Jihadism at the core of Daesh/ISIS and AQ is justified.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...e-jihad-malcolm-lambert-review-patrick-french

 

[Smiffy]

We don't get the opportunity to punish them, they blow themselves up along with innocent civilians!!

The ones spouting their crap at rallies don't though Robin.
If we can round up football hooligans from what is seen on CCTV footage, why can't we do the same with these oxygen thieves

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And they are repaying us how?
By spreading hatred and contempt for our country.
And please don't call it "their" country.
They are here by proxy.
Round the lot of them up, and get shot of them.
Or get them half way across the channel on an old ferry and torpedo the *******.
Because they are of no use to Britain.

They ? The lot of them ?

All sorts of generic terms there Smiffy ? Who exactly do you mean by "they or them"

Someone being born in this country isn't here by proxy he is here by birth - the same as anyone else born in this country

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Send them to Gruinard, keep them on the British Isles but where we tell them

As it happens my cousin used to look after Gruinard Island and graze sheep there. It's anthrax free these days (not that I'm suggesting that you had that in mind)

 

[Crazyface]

Excellent debates and dialog from individuals on Sky News clearly stating that anyone who is saying this isn't about religion or that religion isn't behind all the attacks we endure, is kidding themselves!

All the wordings and texts are real, it's simply that some individuals interpret them differently, some of these speakers also go on to say that again this idea that weak or vulnerable individuals are targeted, is a myth!

Yes, there is no doubt radicalisation goes on but individuals who are brought up with or around these more hostile and hatred variations of Islam towards the west or anyone that doesn't follow those jihadist ideals, volunteer and make themselves available to the terror groups who then simply use them as weapons for their own agenda.

What I don't ever quite get my head around is, we go on about being a multicultural country and we are happy to welcome people from anywhere in the world, but for me there has to be a stronger sense of integration.

Nobody should come over and set up in areas that only dominate those nationalities, religious beliefs or faiths, and then make no effort to mix with western society and only go on to complain and demonstrate against our western views and laws and more importantly, make no effort to speak our language.

Change has to start somewhere, more worrying is that there are areas in my city, and possibly others, that even I wouldn't venture out on my own too late into the night.

We have already had some situations where young women walking home from nightclubs have been attacked and beaten by young Muslim men who don't agree with the way they are dressed etc!

If these young men are like this now within our country and have probably been born here, then they are typical of the issues and problems we face and are possibly being taught this way by their parents, and if that is the case, then before these young men become fully fledged homegrown terrorists, if there parents have not been born here and still hold dual nationality in their birth country, then they need getting rid of back to where they allegedly fled from, because quite simply, we cannot have these homegrown terrorists thinking they can come and go as they please and believing there's nothing we can do before it's too late and they've blown some people up because they hold a British passport.

All British passports and citizenship for people coming to our country to set up new lives needs to be temporary, if any serious laws are broken or if we know of teachings which can or could lead to serious terrorist events, those passports are then withdrawn and they, parents, son's daughters and everyone associated to them whether born here or not, are flown immediately out back to their parents origin.

No detention centres, no red tape, it's a temporary passport and it can be withdrawn immediately.

This is no time to pander to the rights of any individuals, we make our laws, they are abided by or you run the risk of being deported back to your place of birth and any sons or daughters born here lose their rights as there citizenship is only based on their parents temporary passport/dual-nationality.

It's time to take the gloves off...

This This this this this. Vote for FISH !!!!!!!!

 

[oxymoron]

There is absolutely no way to avoid these sorts of incidents completely unless we develop the ability to read minds.

Resorting to bully boy tactics where we deport anyone with a funny accent, brown skin or he refuses to bend the knee to the Union flag is empty rhetoric that always gets stirred up after such a terrible event.

The best thing we can do is continue to press for peace and help those who come from a different background to integrate into our country. People may well be hurt along the way but that is the way of the world. Some things are inevitable; you will NEVER expunge hate and fear from society. We can only try to minimize it through an inclusive attitude that seeks to learn and benefit from each other.

That may sound like idealistic nonsense but it's the truth.

Press for peace ? How ?These zealots only want absolute control in a society of their choosing ,, not one that this country subscribes too , we are a christian country are we not ?No way should we be changing our way of life for what , at the end of the day , are basically immigrants\guests in our country , if they want an Islamic (or any other religious based state )the feel free to F*** off to one, DO not try to change us .

People may well get hurt along the way ? Are you serious ? No one , not one person should be hurt , no one should have a family member not return home after an outing , no one .

I apologize for my language but this is very emotive .No one has the answers but we need to support the ones who try to protect us.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

this thread shows exactly why this situation wont improve for a long time....we as a country are too soft, too frightened to upset/offend anyone, anyone who stands and says what they believe is branded a bigot and a racist.

A day will come when something snaps and we will have a civil war. It wont be pretty.

We are the country we, are with the attitudes we have, and the respect across the world that we have - because of our basic values of tolerance and respect and how we apply our laws. Much of what has been posted here 'to protect our way of life' actually IMO goes quite some way to undermining that very way of life, our values - and the respect we as a country have around the world.

 

[Smiffy]

All sorts of generic terms there Smiffy ? Who exactly do you mean by "they or them"

The ones you see shouting off at the rally's threatening to kill the Police, kill the English, kill the politicians, kill the emergency services, kill British solders etc. etc. etc.
Them ones.
We can identify them via tv and cctv footage. We know who they are.
Whether they were born over here or not, they are about as much use to this country as either Ian Bradey or Myra Hindley were. Kick the *******s out.

 

[Foxholer]

So you think the demonstration I linked to in post 129 should be allowed?

What illegal activity did you observe? It's up to the authorities to ensure that they take suitable action where illegal activity is observed! This may well be the cancellation of the 'license' to demonstrate.Or, it may, however, be determined that the 'best' course is to let the demo continue!

And FWIW... It's actually pretty simple to simulate a significant crowd with relatively few participants - even with a phone camera. That seems to be the case in that video! How many participants can you really see/here?

 

[Crazyface]

Your talk of communities is exactly whats wrong, we should be a Britiah community not fragmented groups depending on what our religious beliefs are. Religion needs to be removed from communities and everyone should consider themselves British citizens.

This too. Smash the mosques !

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

hmmm - from 2015 - prescient

http://uk.businessinsider.com/there...at-cuts-risked-terror-attack-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

Perhaps to bear in mind as we listen to our Prime Minister sound so concerned, stable and strong - when she was responsible for government cuts to police funding that led to cuts in police officers on the ground - in communities.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The ones you see shouting off at the rally's threatening to kill the Police, kill the English, kill the politicians, kill the emergency services, kill British solders etc. etc. etc.
Them ones.
We can identify them via tv and cctv footage. We know who they are.
Whether they were born over here or not, they are about as much use to this country as either Ian Bradey or Myra Hindley were. Kick the *******s out.

That's all words though isn't it - just words

Same as the EDL or BNP rallies - they also shout kill the police etc etc

And people who do incite hatred do get convicted and if possible extradited

But then when was the last rally of this type ?

But again where do you kick them out too ? Everyone keeps saying it but where do you expect the country to kick them out too !

Just look at Crazyfaces post - smash the mosques - shall we kick him out as well

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This too. Smash the mosques !

...and how do you think the Muslim communities across the UK would react to that...what a stupid thing to say - and you don't actually even mean it.

 

[Crazyface]

But this individual's parents were from Libya, so this was a perfect scenario, and if that had stopped this heinous act, then it was worth all the changing of law and upsetting of a few innocents.

Personally you're just coming across as argumentative with non related scenarios, I appreciate 1 glove don't fit all but just keeping to the status quo whilst this issue rises and gets worse, which it is and will until we plug it, doesn't solve squatt.

Maybe you need something closer to home to happen to you for you to change your liberal opinion? We need radical change for this current growing threat, it won't be pretty and it won't be popular, but what we have now with these british born trojan horses isn't working and is being exploited, and that has nothing to do with resources or money or dare I say, Brexit.

The issue is we have many british born suicide bombers amongst us and we need to create a fear factor to not only them, although that won't work on it's own, but to all their immediate family over here, all or nothing, keep them all in check and break the ranks and maybe some communities will then open up a bit.

Holy moly. This too !!!!!!! Praise the skies!!! I'm not on my own. I could weep. Vote for the party that says they are going to actually do something like this.