Manchester Terrorist Attack!

Liverpoolphil said:
Exactly - he is a British citizen by right , no different to anyone else born in this country.
If he is seen to break our laws he is then convicted and punished under those laws.
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I would regard myself as far more British than him ....................... far more.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
It's not a new thing - Irish , West Indian , Indian , Pakistani - they have been creating areas in this country for decades now and every single normally gets identified by origins - British Indian , British West Indian etc etc - same sigh Muslims - only have to see the responses from the British Muslim society - they denounce the actions of the minority.

British has been multicultural for centuries- being British isnt anything beyond being born in the U.K. - being British is full of different strains from all over the world - you can't suddenly undo decades of development. People can speak whatever language they wish , they can practise whatever religion they wish , they can live their life anyway they wish - provided its within the laws of our country.
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But its not the same. Irish , West Indian , Indian, these people have integrated well into British Society and dont have intentions to change the rest of society to adopt to their particular culture. Irish are a different case as they were British not so long ago and have always lived in the UK. The others dont want to have a particular type of law applying to them, they tend to be as British as anyone.

Britain has not been multicultural for centuries, it may have seen small numbers of peoples come here from places they have been discriminated but these people dont reside in separate communities with separate cultures. i repeat, multiculturalism is a failure and the product of the leftist elite who are responsible for much of the current breakdown in society.
 
I don't think resources are an issue, there's no way we are experiencing cut backs on national security activities like this imo.

We always seem to be able to piece everything together about individuals and all their movements and associations AFTER they have committed a terrorist act, so for me it's only our current laws that are not allowing us to arrest, hold, interrogate and imprison theses home grown trojans who come from families that mainly have come from the Middle East and have been known to travel back & forth, although their parents allegedly fled that country to live here in peace, so why do their children go back there if it's not to be trained in readiness of carrying out a terrorist act?

No amount of resources or extra intel can address this growing issue more than is what's being done now, it's a numbers game now as there are so many amongst us hiding behind the fact they have British passports and can move freely.

This is why there needs to be a change in passports or ID's so that everyone coming here to live from another country has a completely different, and imo, temporary residence passport so that movements of these people and their siblings which irrelevant of being born here, also have a different passport or ID so that when any member of that family commits an act of terrorism the whole family is removed.

I really don't care if it seems unjust, you've got to break the ranks from within and some siblings from a family may not agree with what they know is going on and intel could be gained to stop these attacks, but to not change anything within the fabric of our laws is no longer productive imo against this new growing threat from within.

I would now want if not insist all family members of the Manchester terrorist deported back to Libya from where there parents came from, irrelevant of any being born here, they all lost their rights to be British citizens and imo were all fully aware of his beliefs and potential actions.

Change is a dirty word for some, but sometimes it's necessary and that time is now! Its no good harping on about the past, or about Blairs war or anything or anyone in a past tense, this is happening now and isn't going away anytime soon, so our laws need changing now to protect our way of life so we can go about it freely without the fear that terrorism brings.
 
The Security Services have been cut back year after year, they are arresting people and pieceing stuff together because they have a definite target and they zoom in, prior to the attack he was 1 of hundreds on a watch list.

Squaddies are on the streets to release Police to other duties, we obviously haven't got enough Police then.

Whether you like it ir not and whether I agree or not, no Government is going to change the status of millions of current British Passport holders.
 
Smiffy said:
These people that attend the rallies. Can't they just throw them out, or is that too simple?
That's what I'd do.
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It would be a good start.
To commit a crime someone needs means, motivation and opportunity
These terrorists certainly have the means and the motivation but if you remove them from the country, you remove the opportunity.
To identify these terrorists before they strike needs insider intelligence and thats from people in their own community.
There are no lone wolves in my opinion
 
Smiffy said:
These people that attend the rallies. Can't they just throw them out, or is that too simple?
That's what I'd do.
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Again throw them out to where ? Most of them are British Citizens ?

And does it include the EDL rallies where hatred and racism is also openly displayed ?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Again throw them out to where ? Most of them are British Citizens ?

And does it include the EDL rallies where hatred and racism is also openly displayed ?
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Both groups need to be dealt with.

But one group is decrying what they think has happened to england. The other wants the place to burn.

I'm not saying on is better than the other, but i can see quite clearly how one group upsets a bigger amount of people.
 
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Fish said:
I don't think resources are an issue, there's no way we are experiencing cut backs on national security activities like this imo.

We always seem to be able to piece everything together about individuals and all their movements and associations AFTER they have committed a terrorist act, so for me it's only our current laws that are not allowing us to arrest, hold, interrogate and imprison theses home grown trojans who come from families that mainly have come from the Middle East and have been known to travel back & forth, although their parents allegedly fled that country to live here in peace, so why do their children go back there if it's not to be trained in readiness of carrying out a terrorist act?

No amount of resources or extra intel can address this growing issue more than is what's being done now, it's a numbers game now as there are so many amongst us hiding behind the fact they have British passports and can move freely.

This is why there needs to be a change in passports or ID's so that everyone coming here to live from another country has a completely different, and imo, temporary residence passport so that movements of these people and their siblings which irrelevant of being born here, also have a different passport or ID so that when any member of that family commits an act of terrorism the whole family is removed.

I really don't care if it seems unjust, you've got to break the ranks from within and some siblings from a family may not agree with what they know is going on and intel could be gained to stop these attacks, but to not change anything within the fabric of our laws is no longer productive imo against this new growing threat from within.

I would now want if not insist all family members of the Manchester terrorist deported back to Libya from where there parents came from, irrelevant of any being born here, they all lost their rights to be British citizens and imo were all fully aware of his beliefs and potential actions.

Change is a dirty word for some, but sometimes it's necessary and that time is now! Its no good harping on about the past, or about Blairs war or anything or anyone in a past tense, this is happening now and isn't going away anytime soon, so our laws need changing now to protect our way of life so we can go about it freely without the fear that terrorism brings.
Click to expand...

I would suggest that the reason we can piece together all the information after the act is that there are 100s, if not 1000s of police and members of the intelligence agencies all working on one task and one task only. To find out as much as they can about the specific perpetrator(s) movements and affiliations. If you multiplied the police force and intelligence agencies ten fold then I am pretty sure they would be able to complete such in depth surveillance and monitoring on all these 'potential' terrorists.

And as for harping on about the past, then one mans harping on is another mans understanding of the reasons why people are doing such acts so they can hopefully learn from them and put in other initiatives to prevent them happening in the future.
 
Phil, whilst I can see your point, a line has been crossed, people born here, of immigrant parents who openly demonstrate against our way of life, have in my view, renounced their British citizenship.
They either integrate into British society and accept our way of life, or they are free to leave,
There can be no middle ground, yes it's not going to be easy, but unless the communities where these people live start outing those who are the problem, we need to start doing it ourselves.

The time to be politically correct has passed, we need a measured response that sends a message to the communities that we will not tolerate this type of hate crime on our shores .
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Phil, whilst I can see your point, a line has been crossed, people born here, of immigrant parents who openly demonstrate against our way of life, have in my view, renounced their British citizenship.
They either integrate into British society and accept our way of life, or they are free to leave,
There can be no middle ground, yes it's not going to be easy, but unless the communities where these people live start outing those who are the problem, we need to start doing it ourselves.

The time to be politically correct has passed, we need a measured response that sends a message to the communities that we will not tolerate this type of hate crime on our shores .
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All fine words, please expand on "a measured response"
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Phil, whilst I can see your point, a line has been crossed, people born here, of immigrant parents who openly demonstrate against our way of life, have in my view, renounced their British citizenship.
They either integrate into British society and accept our way of life, or they are free to leave,
There can be no middle ground, yes it's not going to be easy, but unless the communities where these people live start outing those who are the problem, we need to start doing it ourselves.

The time to be politically correct has passed, we need a measured response that sends a message to the communities that we will not tolerate this type of hate crime on our shores .
Click to expand...

Pretty spot on I'd say.

Also known as " When in Rome ......."
 
pauldj42 said:
All fine words, please expand on "a measured response"
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Well I'm not talking about shooting people in the streets, but quite happy to start with all the people on the terrorist watch list.

There are there for a reason, round them up, deport any obvious ones, tag those who stay and watch them, any problems, chuck em out.

Law abiding peaceful citizens of whatever background have nothing to fear from this, but those who incite need to be booted out
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Well I'm not talking about shooting people in the streets, but quite happy to start with all the people on the terrorist watch list.

There are there for a reason, round them up, deport any obvious ones, tag those who stay and watch them, any problems, chuck em out.

Law abiding peaceful citizens of whatever background have nothing to fear from this, but those who incite need to be booted out
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Boot them out to were? What if these countries we decide to send them to refuse to take them,

When did we decide to start judging people without evidence?

And again if we start booting people out we may as well ban all law abiding people from travelling abroad to any country we can't trust, because all you're doing is putting a big target on the backs of our citizens abroad.
 
pauldj42 said:
Boot them out to were? What if these countries we decide to send them to refuse to take them,

When did we decide to start judging people without evidence?

And again if we start booting people out we may as well ban all law abiding people from travelling abroad to any country we can't trust, because all you're doing is putting a big target on the backs of our citizens abroad.
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Ok so please tell us what you would do, give us your views
 
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