Manchester Terrorist Attack!

[Deleted member 16999]

If "it" is carrying out the attack in the name of religion, then you can understand why people put a religious tag on "it".
As for internment, what would you do? We don't let burglars walk the streets without a tag and yet we let those who are under suspicion walk free. I can't allow anyone at work to make a coffee without carrying out a risk assessment. I would like to see the risk assessment on letting these people roam free.
Assesment: Not arresting a potential terrorist.
Risk: Mass murder on a grand scale.
Action: No action available under the law.

No-one wants to see innocent people detained, but if it's a choice between that a dead children, I know which way I would go. I would rather err on the side of cation

The only burglars we allow to walk the streets are the convicted ones, you're talking guilty until proven innocent.

Were are all these people who are going to gather the information, arrest them, interview them, lock them up, were's the detention centres, were's the staff, whose going to feed them while they are locked up......etc etc.

What we should be doing is manning, funding and resourcing our security forces correctly, they are doing a fantastic job with one arm tied behind their back.

Even with all that you'll never stop the lone wolf or the one who flips and uses whatever they can.

You can't simply lift anyone and everyone on suspicion, you'll waste more time processing the innocent and all British people abroad you put at greater risk.

 

[SocketRocket]

The only people putting a religious tag on it are people on social media from what I can see.

Religion has to be at the heart of it. It may be an extreme form of it but all the same it's in the name of religion. We seem to be frightened to admit and face up to it as we may be called racist. These perpetrators carry out their crimes in the name of Islam and are Muslims, if you look at the Muslim world there are wars and religious hatred all over, that extends now to countries where they have moved to. I am not suggesting all muslims are the problem but I cant ignore the fact that something in their communities create this hatred for others and even themselves, we cannot sit back and ignore it in the name of Political Correctness.

 

[Sweep]

The only burglars we allow to walk the streets are the convicted ones, you're talking guilty until proven innocent.

Were are all these people who are going to gather the information, arrest them, interview them, lock them up, were's the detention centres, were's the staff, whose going to feed them while they are locked up......etc etc.

What we should be doing is manning, funding and resourcing our security forces correctly, they are doing a fantastic job with one arm tied behind their back.

Even with all that you'll never stop the lone wolf or the one who flips and uses whatever they can.

You can't simply lift anyone and everyone on suspicion, you'll waste more time processing the innocent and all British people abroad you put at greater risk.

I agree with you on the job the security forces are doing and that we should fund them. We should also stop tying their hands behind their back and allow them to tag or detain those who are under suspicion. The alternative, as a I say, is to allow the terrorists to continue to kill us and our children.
I agree that you will never get them all, especially the lone wolf, but where we are aware of people's terrorist beliefs, associations and online activity it's simply crazy to allow them the scope to commit an atrocity.
As in most bad situations, prevention is better than the cure.
A governments first duty is to protect its citizens. It's time our government treated this as a priority and I think it is a fair question to ask any party seeking election in June how they plan to tackle this threat. Doing nothing is not an option.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree with you on the job the security forces are doing and that we should fund them. We should also stop tying their hands behind their back and allow them to tag or detain those who are under suspicion. The alternative, as a I say, is to allow the terrorists to continue to kill us and our children.
I agree that you will never get them all, especially the lone wolf, but where we are aware of people's terrorist beliefs, associations and online activity it's simply crazy to allow them the scope to commit an atrocity.
As in most bad situations, prevention is better than the cure.
A governments first duty is to protect its citizens. It's time our government treated this as a priority and I think it is a fair question to ask any party seeking election in June how they plan to tackle this threat. Doing nothing is not an option.

That's exactly what they are doing, the fight sgainst these people is 24/7, We live in a Democracy and have the finest justice system in the world, Judges won't sign off on suspicion and rumour, we all want this scum wiped off the earth but locking anyone and everyone we have suspicions about won't work.
Nobody is allowing terrorists to kill anybody,

 

[Hacker Khan]

That's exactly what they are doing, the fight sgainst these people is 24/7, We live in a Democracy and have the finest justice system in the world, Judges won't sign off on suspicion and rumour, we all want this scum wiped off the earth but locking anyone and everyone we have suspicions about won't work.
Nobody is allowing terrorists to kill anybody,

Very good point. Also I am lead to believe that they prevent the vast majority of these planned incidents occurring through intelligence. Of course you can not rest on your laurels but as you correctly say, they are hardly 'doing nothing'. In fact I am pretty sure they would be insulted by that accusation.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Religion has to be at the heart of it. It may be an extreme form of it but all the same it's in the name of religion. We seem to be frightened to admit and face up to it as we may be called racist. These perpetrators carry out their crimes in the name of Islam and are Muslims, if you look at the Muslim world there are wars and religious hatred all over, that extends now to countries where they have moved to. I am not suggesting all muslims are the problem but I cant ignore the fact that something in their communities create this hatred for others and even themselves, we cannot sit back and ignore it in the name of Political Correctness.

A warped interpretation and application of the medieval teachings of one religion used to brainwash individuals with low self-esteem and low self-worth - from the days that Christians burned and tortured each other for saying the wrong thing and sent crusades to free Jerusalem from the muslims.

 

[Hacker Khan]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/humanity-levels-raised-to-high-20170524128199

 

[woody69]

I agree with you on the job the security forces are doing and that we should fund them. We should also stop tying their hands behind their back and allow them to tag or detain those who are under suspicion. The alternative, as a I say, is to allow the terrorists to continue to kill us and our children.
I agree that you will never get them all, especially the lone wolf, but where we are aware of people's terrorist beliefs, associations and online activity it's simply crazy to allow them the scope to commit an atrocity.
As in most bad situations, prevention is better than the cure.
A governments first duty is to protect its citizens. It's time our government treated this as a priority and I think it is a fair question to ask any party seeking election in June how they plan to tackle this threat. Doing nothing is not an option.

The security services are not 'doing nothing'. I don't have recent figures, but at the start of the year Britain had supposedly foiled 10 potential terrorist attacks over the previous 2 years and had over 550 'live' cases open. They have also convicted nearly 300 individuals on terror related offences in that time.

The problem is, for all that effort, all it takes is one to be successful and it is assumed we are not doing enough.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am of a mind that on a personal level and how I live my life that I must include the chance of getting caught up in a terrorist attack in the same bucket of risks as motorway driving, flying, ferries, train journeys etc. 'Taking part' in any of these I know is a risk, but I know that if I do my part and the authorities and others do their part; and I encourage, support and exhort them to do so whenever I can and as best I can, then the risk to me and those with me is minimised and that is all I can do.

I will add - and this will miss most I suspect - but it is how I can cope - as a Christian I am able to hand over my acceptance of the risk and any anger and fear I have over such atrocities to my God (as I understand him) - and in that way I can get on with life with general peace of mind. Just how I do it. No point in me walking about with anger, resentments and fear when I have done all I can, and trust that all others like-minded are doing their bit, and their best also.

 

[Crazyface]

The security services are not 'doing nothing'. I don't have recent figures, but at the start of the year Britain had supposedly foiled 10 potential terrorist attacks over the previous 2 years and had over 550 'live' cases open. They have also convicted nearly 300 individuals on terror related offences in that time.

The problem is, for all that effort, all it takes is one to be successful and it is assumed we are not doing enough.

And yet we let these people wander around coming in and out of our country. We shout out words of defiance afterwards...wait 'till is one of your family that are killed. Will these people, who passionately proclaim Manchester will prevail, still be saying the same things then? Will they hell!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Religion has to be at the heart of it. It may be an extreme form of it but all the same it's in the name of religion. We seem to be frightened to admit and face up to it as we may be called racist. These perpetrators carry out their crimes in the name of Islam and are Muslims, if you look at the Muslim world there are wars and religious hatred all over, that extends now to countries where they have moved to. I am not suggesting all muslims are the problem but I cant ignore the fact that something in their communities create this hatred for others and even themselves, we cannot sit back and ignore it in the name of Political Correctness.

You appear desperate to ensure that religion of Islam and Muslims get blamed for it - it's like reading a Facebook post from one of those Templar Knight groups - under currents of clear racism despite the denials. There are millions upon millions of Muslims practising their religion in perfect peace and harmony.

Over the years Christianity has prob been at the heart of more deaths around the world than any other religion - going back to the crusades and even before that , all the way up to recent years.

It's not the fault of religion or beliefs it's always people interpretation of what is written down - no religion tells people to murder kids going to a concert but someone's interpretation of their religion will have them believe they are doing it for the right cause just as over the years christians believe they were doing it for the right cause when they murdered other ethnics or people with different beliefs

 

[Deleted member 16999]

And yet we let these people wander around coming in and out of our country. We shout out words of defiance afterwards...wait 'till is one of your family that are killed. Will these people, who passionately proclaim Manchester will prevail, still be saying the same things then? Will they hell!

These people are British and hold British Passports, just how exactly do we stop them coming in and out of our Country?
It's their Country as well and it's the wrong attitude of those that wish to harm us that we have to defeat, putting travel bans will do nothing.

 

[Papas1982]

You appear desperate to ensure that religion of Islam and Muslims get blamed for it - it's like reading a Facebook post from one of those Templar Knight groups - under currents of clear racism despite the denials. There are millions upon millions of Muslims practising their religion in perfect peace and harmony.

Over the years Christianity has prob been at the heart of more deaths around the world than any other religion - going back to the crusades and even before that , all the way up to recent years.

It's not the fault of religion or beliefs it's always people interpretation of what is written down - no religion tells people to murder kids going to a concert but someone's interpretation of their religion will have them believe they are doing it for the right cause just as over the years christians believe they were doing it for the right cause when they murdered other ethnics or people with different beliefs

Go to many muslim countries and try to openly practice Christianity. See how that works out.

The muslim religion is not one of war and hate. But, the twisted beliefs of it are currently not just restricted to a minority.

 

[Papas1982]

These people are British and hold British Passports, just how exactly do we stop them coming in and out of our Country?
It's their Country as well and it's the wrong attitude of those that wish to harm us that we have to defeat, putting travel bans will do nothing.

I don't think its the right answer, but could the country not decide to ban the religion that these people follow. Many countries don't allow the practice of certain religions. With the latest events i wouldnt be surprised to see a swell of support if they banned the practice of islam.

Then it would maybe force people to either leave ( homegrown or not), or at least make it harder for people to find places to worship.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I don't think its the right answer, but could the country not decide to ban the religion that these people follow. Many countries don't allow the practice of certain religions. With the latest events i wouldnt be surprised to see a swell of support if they banned the practice of islam.

Then it would maybe force people to either leave ( homegrown or not), or at least make it harder for people to find places to worship.

You're not being serious surely, isn't that red rag to a bull? Should we have kicked all the Irish Catholics and their descendants out when the IRA was active.
The normal everyday law abiding muslim and islamist are not the issue.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't think its the right answer, but could the country not decide to ban the religion that these people follow. Many countries don't allow the practice of certain religions. With the latest events i wouldnt be surprised to see a swell of support if they banned the practice of islam.

Then it would maybe force people to either leave ( homegrown or not), or at least make it harder for people to find places to worship.

Come on - you cannot be serious...

besides how do you 'ban' thought and belief...ah yes George Orwell invented a dystopian UK where the Thought Police monitored your every movement and activity and these would eventually reveal your thinking - and then they would get you.

I would assume you uphold the individual right of freedom of speech movement (freedom of religion having been dropped) - and yet ... ban Islam - perfect Doublethink

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

 

[Beezerk]

The normal everyday law abiding muslim and islamist are not the issue.

I do believe he didn't say they were, you're kind of succinctly putting words in his mouth.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Go to many muslim countries and try to openly practice Christianity. See how that works out.

The muslim religion is not one of war and hate. But, the twisted beliefs of it are currently not just restricted to a minority.

Sorry but the actions that cause havoc and chaos are restricted to the minority to suggest otherwise is clearly wrong

There is nothing wrong in having different beliefs to others - it's what makes us all different

Just read your other post and ban Islam and Muslims ?!? Do you suggest the same for any areas of Christianity that have caused issues ? Ban religion based on the minority who try and twist the teachings to justify their actions

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There was an interesting interview this morning on GMB, no really. It was a woman who I normally find unbearable but she actually spoke very well. Yasmin something or other. Anyway, her point was these people are following a Muslim doctrine, don't hide from this, don't pretend otherwise. It is an extreme version, medieval. There have been more Muslims killed by these people than any other religious group so don't think other Muslims escape or support this. She blamed a particular sect which I wont state as I don't know enough about it but which came predominantly from Saudi Arabia. Anyway, she stated that this section of the faith should not be allowed to run Mosques or schools in this country. A former extremist, now converted, agreed with her. She was a Shia Muslim by the way and no, the sect was not Sunny. Very interesting.

 

[Fish]

Excellent debates and dialog from individuals on Sky News clearly stating that anyone who is saying this isn't about religion or that religion isn't behind all the attacks we endure, is kidding themselves!

All the wordings and texts are real, it's simply that some individuals interpret them differently, some of these speakers also go on to say that again this idea that weak or vulnerable individuals are targeted, is a myth!

Yes, there is no doubt radicalisation goes on but individuals who are brought up with or around these more hostile and hatred variations of Islam towards the west or anyone that doesn't follow those jihadist ideals, volunteer and make themselves available to the terror groups who then simply use them as weapons for their own agenda.

What I don't ever quite get my head around is, we go on about being a multicultural country and we are happy to welcome people from anywhere in the world, but for me there has to be a stronger sense of integration.

Nobody should come over and set up in areas that only dominate those nationalities, religious beliefs or faiths, and then make no effort to mix with western society and only go on to complain and demonstrate against our western views and laws and more importantly, make no effort to speak our language.

Change has to start somewhere, more worrying is that there are areas in my city, and possibly others, that even I wouldn't venture out on my own too late into the night.

We have already had some situations where young women walking home from nightclubs have been attacked and beaten by young Muslim men who don't agree with the way they are dressed etc!

If these young men are like this now within our country and have probably been born here, then they are typical of the issues and problems we face and are possibly being taught this way by their parents, and if that is the case, then before these young men become fully fledged homegrown terrorists, if there parents have not been born here and still hold dual nationality in their birth country, then they need getting rid of back to where they allegedly fled from, because quite simply, we cannot have these homegrown terrorists thinking they can come and go as they please and believing there's nothing we can do before it's too late and they've blown some people up because they hold a British passport.

All British passports and citizenship for people coming to our country to set up new lives needs to be temporary, if any serious laws are broken or if we know of teachings which can or could lead to serious terrorist events, those passports are then withdrawn and they, parents, son's daughters and everyone associated to them whether born here or not, are flown immediately out back to their parents origin.

No detention centres, no red tape, it's a temporary passport and it can be withdrawn immediately.

This is no time to pander to the rights of any individuals, we make our laws, they are abided by or you run the risk of being deported back to your place of birth and any sons or daughters born here lose their rights as there citizenship is only based on their parents temporary passport/dual-nationality.

It's time to take the gloves off...