ScienceBoy
Money List Winner
This sounds like a job for a MANOVA
Making Course difficult for Pros
- Thread starter drdel
- Start date
Crow
Crow Person
You speak my language friend!
pendodave
Tour Rookie
Exactly, if the game's too easy/one dimensional, change the kit, not the playing field. They did it with baseball bats and tennis balls.
robinthehood
Hacker
How far back do we roll the kit? Let's not pretend Nicklaus was knobbing it 240 off the tee , his distance was a big asset. 300 yd drives a plenty.
Trapdraw
Medal Winner
No he wasn’t, but he wasn’t hitting it 340 to 360 either! With the modern driver players can swing as hard as they like with very little punishment for miss hits. Having deep rough around the greens has made the PGA tour one dimensional to watch. Massive drive, miss the fairway, lob wedge out of the rough! Yawn Yawn Yawn.
The Presidents Cup at Royal Melbourne was what tour golf should be like, shot making and skill around the greens. And the only way to get that type of golf back is to limit the equipment to allow classic courses to be used.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Blimey - When did the game become too easy or one dimensional ?
The courses are the same for everyone
current two comps going on - leaders at 6 under , not exactly ripping it up
bobmac
Major Champion
And the javelin
Colonel Bogey
Active member
The simple solution would be to not have ball spotters and make them find their own balls. Can you see a ball after 240 yards? Nope neither can I. Sometimes not even after 150 as it crashes into something either left or right, I'm not quite sure where that went.
robinthehood
Hacker
Let's not forget just how good the pros are... equipment plays a part but only in the right hands
IanM
Journeyman Pro
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That's also true, but the kit has moved on massively in the past 30 years.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Given that Hoylake off the blacks was SSS 78 I would suggest a little higher. ? A that length you are moving out of the easy equation arena
badgermat
Club Champion
Wouldn't it just be easier to restrict the clubs that pros can use. Nothing lower than 20* loft and, say, 39" shaft. Nothing higher than 54*.
A lot less problematic than changing the construction rules.
bm
Dan2501
Tour Winner
I know one way you don't do it, and that's by adding yardage to a course, does not work and does not make courses more difficult for the big hitters, just gives them more of an advantage.
Bring fairways in, make pins less accessible so players have to hit to certain parts of the golf course in order to access pins, introduce more centre lying bunkers or blind tee-shots and firm up the greens, things that make Tour players uncomfortable if you do want to make golf harder, I'm not convinced that's necessary though, golf's fine the way it is, not like scoring averages are plummeting. None of that is going to happen either, the players have too much power and if events start trying to do this it's going to upset the some of the big name prima-donnas and they'll stop going to these events, which will in effect kill them, so unless that changes and the governing bodies start encouraging it as a worldwide initiative, then it's not going to happen.
Bring fairways in, make pins less accessible so players have to hit to certain parts of the golf course in order to access pins, introduce more centre lying bunkers or blind tee-shots and firm up the greens, things that make Tour players uncomfortable if you do want to make golf harder, I'm not convinced that's necessary though, golf's fine the way it is, not like scoring averages are plummeting. None of that is going to happen either, the players have too much power and if events start trying to do this it's going to upset the some of the big name prima-donnas and they'll stop going to these events, which will in effect kill them, so unless that changes and the governing bodies start encouraging it as a worldwide initiative, then it's not going to happen.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Taking things down from the tour pro level to scratch and better players. We are doing changes to our course in approaches to some greens and around the 250yd mark off the tee on others. Given slope assessment for the Course Scratch Rating considers hazard around 250yds and around greens these changes should slightly toughen things up for that level of player. That said, our course would be completely at the mercy of most, if not all, pros. We could perhaps add hazard for such players by really growing the rough to grim levels - but for me that's not the deal - and obs wouldn't work for a members club.
I'm not bothered that today's top pros can generally muller most courses - they play a different game than us mere mortals and hackers. So I wouldn't do anything to rein them in. Only potential 'issue' is one of the perception raised in those who watch the pros and then fancy taking up the game. The pros can make it look dead easy - and when it turns out to be most incredibly difficult to start with that can be off-putting...and we read of such struggles here quite regularly.
But that's not the fault of the pro game.
I'm not bothered that today's top pros can generally muller most courses - they play a different game than us mere mortals and hackers. So I wouldn't do anything to rein them in. Only potential 'issue' is one of the perception raised in those who watch the pros and then fancy taking up the game. The pros can make it look dead easy - and when it turns out to be most incredibly difficult to start with that can be off-putting...and we read of such struggles here quite regularly.
But that's not the fault of the pro game.
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
I often debate with a friend whether scores a long way under par means courses are too easy. My view is sometimes but not necessarily, whereas he thinks the winning score should always be around level par.
I think all that matters is that the course tests all facets of the players games; driving accuracy and length, long iron / 3 wood risk / reward approaches and tough but fair greens.
If you have that, the best player wins and who cares what the score is?
I can’t stand the USGA setting up the US open to be artificially hard to keep scores from getting too low and taking it too far and making it unfair. How does that find the best golfer? You find the luckiest instead
I think all that matters is that the course tests all facets of the players games; driving accuracy and length, long iron / 3 wood risk / reward approaches and tough but fair greens.
If you have that, the best player wins and who cares what the score is?
I can’t stand the USGA setting up the US open to be artificially hard to keep scores from getting too low and taking it too far and making it unfair. How does that find the best golfer? You find the luckiest instead
Captainron
Big Hitting, South African Sweary Person
That costs a lot of time and money for the host courses. Greens staff would need a few months either side to get it up to spec and then bring it back to “normal” for members and paying visitors.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I recall visiting Winged Foot immediately after the 2006 US Open. They had started digging up and remodelling a load of holes and greens given what they had learned from the Open - just to toughen it up a bit and to make sure that the players had a new and different challenge the next time the US Open was played there.
The 2006 US Open was won with a score of +5 (Geoff Ogilvy) with T6 being +8 with the top ten being +5 to +8. It's back at Winged Foot this year...
The 2006 US Open was won with a score of +5 (Geoff Ogilvy) with T6 being +8 with the top ten being +5 to +8. It's back at Winged Foot this year...
Trapdraw
Medal Winner
I think they have to do something with the equipment, as the current state of affairs is that the current product is boring to watch! 340 yard drive, wedge to the green! Growing the fairways in doesn't work, it plays into the hands of the long hitters.
In the Presidents Cup they could drive a lot of the par 4's but didn't as they knew missing the green or leaving yourself approaches from the wrong angles resulted in much harder second shots. Due to firm and fast conditions and the ball being allowed to run not get stuck in thick juicy rough. This produced much more interesting golf to watch.
In the Presidents Cup they could drive a lot of the par 4's but didn't as they knew missing the green or leaving yourself approaches from the wrong angles resulted in much harder second shots. Due to firm and fast conditions and the ball being allowed to run not get stuck in thick juicy rough. This produced much more interesting golf to watch.
Wolf
Well-known member
And could be covered by additional revenue income from sponsor, % of ticket sales and better priced visitor fees for playing a tour level course.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Better priced? You mean more expensive - making the course even more just for the 'elite' and those with money to burn...well if they want to make golf seem even more elitist than it currently seems they can go ahead with that. Yes of course you and I might well pay a Kings Ransom to play one of the top courses - because we get what we're getting - but we want to make golf more attractive to non-players? One good way of making it less so is by making the courses non-players see on TV even more expensive to play. And that simply set perceptions of the game as being one for those with money. We know it needn't be - but perceptions really matter.