Liverpool - It's not looking too bad in the transfer market

londonlewis said:
so is the general consensus that spending vast amounts of money guarantees success?

And does buying success guarantee it more than world class management / coaching / development etc...
Click to expand...

Examples for:-

1. Chelsea, City - spending 2-4 times what your rivals have over a period of 2-3 years (initially).

2. Wenger was a world class manager, coach and had a strong development ethos.

Example 1 - how many trophies in the last 10 years.

Example 2 - 1 trophy in the last 10 years.

It may be different in other leagues. See Athletico Madrid, but will they win more trophies in the next few years, we'll have to wait and see.
 
Liverbirdie said:
Examples for:-

1. Chelsea, City - spending 2-4 times what your rivals have over a period of 2-3 years (initially).

2. Wenger was a world class manager, coach and had a strong development ethos.

Example 1 - how many trophies in the last 10 years.

Example 2 - 1 trophy in the last 10 years.

It may be different in other leagues. See Athletico Madrid, but will they win more trophies in the next few years, we'll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

Why have you left out Man Utd who have won more trophies than anyone in the Premiership over the last decade or two. Which category do they sit in?
 
londonlewis said:
Why have you left out Man Utd who have won more trophies than anyone in the Premiership over the last decade or two. Which category do they sit in?
Click to expand...


Spent a lot of money but have also brought players through

Made use of a lot of good commercial deals

Man Utd have spent a lot of money also
 
londonlewis said:
Why have you left out Man Utd who have won more trophies than anyone in the Premiership over the last decade or two. Which category do they sit in?
Click to expand...

Example 1.5 Lots of money allied to great development. Slightly unusual in the way that they had 1/2 team come through together who stayed around for 10-15 years. Also a manager in place for over 25 years - also very unusual.
 
londonlewis said:
Ok, so does money guarantee success or is it coaching and development?
Click to expand...

Nothing "guarantees" success but lots of money to be able to buy lots of high quality players gives a team an enhanced chance to buy the better players and create a better team to have a better chance of success. Money enables success to happen quicker
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Nothing "guarantees" success but lots of money to be able to buy lots of high quality players gives a team an enhanced chance to buy the better players and create a better team to have a better chance of success. Money enables success to happen quicker
Click to expand...

Have you ever watched Zoolander? Your response sounds like the quote below.

Derek: Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many peoples lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way.
 
londonlewis said:
Have you ever watched Zoolander? Your response sounds like the quote below.

Derek: Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many peoples lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way.
Click to expand...

You asked a question and i gave an answer ? Is my response not valid then ?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
You asked a question and i gave an answer ? Is my response not valid then ?
Click to expand...

Do you not see the similarity between your response and the quote I've shared?

Earlier posts suggested that the only way to be successful was to throw money at players, which suggests that people felt money does buy success.
However, I can no longer work out whether you believe money buys you success or not.
 
londonlewis said:
Do you not see the similarity between your response and the quote I've shared?

Earlier posts suggested that the only way to be successful was to throw money at players, which suggests that people felt money does buy success.
However, I can no longer work out whether you believe money buys you success or not.
Click to expand...

There is a word missing in that post that you used earlier - "guarantee" - hence my response that nothing is guaranteed

There is no doubt that both City and Chelsea have won the Prem because of the money spent by both of them - they have become success because of the money and the players bought.

Right now the way to be successful is to get the best players - either buying them ( the quick way ) or developing them and hope they dont get poached ( not happened in the prem though ) - clubs dont develop all their own players because it just doesnt work "quick" enough - so right now to gain success teams are buying the best players - so the more money a team has the more "better" players they can get.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
There is a word missing in that post that you used earlier - "guarantee" - hence my response that nothing is guaranteed

There is no doubt that both City and Chelsea have won the Prem because of the money spent by both of them - they have become success because of the money and the players bought.

Right now the way to be successful is to get the best players - either buying them ( the quick way ) or developing them and hope they dont get poached ( not happened in the prem though ) - clubs dont develop all their own players because it just doesnt work "quick" enough - so right now to gain success teams are buying the best players - so the more money a team has the more "better" players they can get.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is doubting that the team with the better players will win Phil.

The original question was whether money guarantees success or whether coaching and good management does.

Let's take Leeds as an example. They threw money into their club like it was going out of fashion, yet they had an unsuccessful year, didn't qualify for Europe, failed to generate the revenue necessary to maintain their outgoings and pretty much went bust. I appreciate they didn't have an owner who could keep throwing money at the problem until they got it right.

I asked an open question in response to a number of people who had made claim that the only way to be a successful football club (successful in terms of winning trophies) was to spend, spend, spend.

These are the figures from January 2014 in terms of spend year on year. Interestingly Everton and Arsenal are near the bottom. Southampton will be very near the bottom now as well.

These figures show that Chelsea is paying twice as much and Man City almost 4 times as much as Man Utd for their success. In the last 5 years the number of trophies won by these clubs is as follows;

Man Utd 5 (2x league, 1x league cup,3x community shield
Man City 5 (2x league, 1x FA cup, 1x league cup, 1x community shield)
Chelsea 5 (1x prem, 2x FA cup, 1x champ league, 1x Europa League)

Newcastle_United_Spending_Last_5_years.png
 
londonlewis said:
I don't think anyone is doubting that the team with the better players will win Phil.

The original question was whether money guarantees success or whether coaching and good management does.

Let's take Leeds as an example. They threw money into their club like it was going out of fashion, yet they had an unsuccessful year, didn't qualify for Europe, failed to generate the revenue necessary to maintain their outgoings and pretty much went bust. I appreciate they didn't have an owner who could keep throwing money at the problem until they got it right.

I asked an open question in response to a number of people who had made claim that the only way to be a successful football club (successful in terms of winning trophies) was to spend, spend, spend.

These are the figures from January 2014 in terms of spend year on year. Interestingly Everton and Arsenal are near the bottom. Southampton will be very near the bottom now as well.

These figures show that Chelsea is paying twice as much and Man City almost 4 times as much as Man Utd for their success. In the last 5 years the number of trophies won by these clubs is as follows;

Man Utd 5 (2x league, 1x league cup,3x community shield
Man City 5 (2x league, 1x FA cup, 1x league cup, 1x community shield)
Chelsea 5 (1x prem, 2x FA cup, 1x champ league, 1x Europa League)

Newcastle_United_Spending_Last_5_years.png
Click to expand...

And as i said - nothing guarantees winning - your table shows that the top three teams with the spending per season are the ones winning the trophies.

Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed - they have spent over the years where as both Chelsea and City have spent quickly over a shorter period.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
And as i said - nothing guarantees winning - your table shows that the top three teams with the spending per season are the ones winning the trophies.

Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed - they have spent over the years where as both Chelsea and City have spent quickly over a shorter period.
Click to expand...

Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?
 
londonlewis said:
Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?
Click to expand...

Did you not read my last paragraph

Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed

Man Utd have been able to add to a successful squad as opposed to trying to build one - they have had a very strong squad of players for nearly 2 decades possibly more - then when needed they just add one to it or a £30 mil replacement here and there.

Right now they are going to start a rebuilding phase hence they have already started spending big money because their squad has dropped
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Did you not read my last paragraph

Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed

Man Utd have been able to add to a successful squad as opposed to trying to build one - they have had a very strong squad of players for nearly 2 decades possibly more - then when needed they just add one to it or a £30 mil replacement here and there.

Right now they are going to start a rebuilding phase hence they have already started spending big money because their squad has dropped
Click to expand...

Did you not read my last question?

Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?

I'll answer it for you;
Liverpool - 1 league cup (£310 million spent)
Tottenham - none (£311 million spent)

Cracking!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top