Line of hazard stakes?

[chrisd]

In our 4bbb game today one of our opponents hit his tee shot left into a lateral water hazard. Well his ball was clearly on the inside of a red stake (water side). His partner tried to make the case that if you look down the line of the stake to the next one, his ball was on the outside of the straight line between the two.

My partner and I argued that, as the stream is not a straight one that the true line of the hazard follows the contour of the stream, and the ball is clearly in the hazard not only because it was in the hazard side of the nearby stake but because of the bends in the stream

Please tell us we got this right?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Isn't the boundary of the hazard determined by the stakes ?

So you look from stake to stake - so if it's on the outside of that line then it's not in the hazard ?

Was there a line on the ground ? http://www.golftoday.co.uk/19th/golf_rules/112_water_hazard.html

 

[guest100718]

In our 4bbb game today one of our opponents hit his tee shot left into a lateral water hazard. Well his ball was clearly on the inside of a red stake (water side). His partner tried to make the case that if you look down the line of the stake to the next one, his ball was on the outside of the straight line between the two.

My partner and I argued that, as the stream is not a straight one that the true line of the hazard follows the contour of the stream, and the ball is clearly in the hazard not only because it was in the hazard side of the nearby stake but because of the bends in the stream

Please tell us we got this right?

I dont think so, but cant really say without seeing it.

 

[chrisd]

Was there a line on the ground ? http://www.golftoday.co.uk/19th/golf_rules/112_water_hazard.html

Not along this part of the course

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not along this part of the course

Then it would appear the boundary of the hazard is the direct line in between each stake

 

[KenL]

I used to be on a committee and involved in course aspects. We had a member who was a rules official. He had us paint a line between stakes around our ponds to outline the margin of the hazard.
Without a line I think you should use the straight line between the posts and not assume there is an imaginary line that is equidistant from the natural edge of the hazard.

 

[Imurg]

Surely the edge of the stream is the edge of the hazard....
A straight line between 2 stakes could leave you "in" the hazard but "out" of it - that makes no sense.
It's a straight line between 2 OB markers but for hazards....not sure it's the case.

 

[guest100718]

if part of the hazard is outside of the line between the two stakes. you are still in the hazard.

 

[louise_a]

I would have thought that in the absence of lines around the hazard then you have to take a straight line from one post to the next.

 

[chrisd]

There was a stake about 12" away from the ball, and the ball was at least 12" nearer the water than the stake was. Looking in the other direction to the upstream stake stake it was definitely inside the line of those two

 

[SammmeBee]

There was a stake about 12" away from the ball, and the ball was at least 12" nearer the water than the stake was. Looking in the other direction to the upstream stake stake it was definitely inside the line of those two

Where was the ball in relation to the line between the 2 stakes it was sitting between - hazard side or golf course side?

 

[chrisd]

Where was the ball in relation to the line between the 2 stakes it was sitting between - hazard side or golf course side?

I didn't look at the downstream stakes as it was clearly in the hazard afaik. It was well inside the stake but I look at the line upstream and it was definitely hazard side of those two stakes

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I didn't look at the downstream stakes as it was clearly in the hazard afaik. It was well inside the stake but I look at the line upstream and it was definitely hazard side of those two stakes

What about the relation to the two nearest stakes to the ball - they are the only ones that matter. Looking either up or down shouldn't make a difference. If standing at one stake and looking directly at the ball and the next stake was it on the hazard side or not ?

 

[chrisd]

What about the relation to the two nearest stakes to the ball - they are the only ones that matter. Looking either up or down shouldn't make a difference. If standing at one stake and looking directly at the ball and the next stake was it on the hazard side or not ?

That's what I've said There was one stake further up stream and the ball was on the hazard side of those two stakes. The stream went about 10 yards then ran round to the left where the downstream stake was. Both stakes were the same distance from where the bank dropped down to the water

 

[SammmeBee]

That's what I've said There was one stake further up stream and the ball was on the hazard side of those two stakes. The stream went about 10 yards then ran round to the left where the downstream stake was. Both stakes were the same distance from where the bank dropped down to the water

Your OP doesn't suggest that - forget up and down stream - it's all about the 2 stakes the ball is sitting between.......

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm confused because in the OP you said they looked down the straight line of the two stakes and the ball wasn't in the hazard as it was on the outside of the straight line ?

How come they could see it on the outside ?

 

[Foxholer]

While there (quite surprisingly) doesn't seem to be a decision that covers this case, the obvious priority is for the natural margin of the hazard to define the margin.

Decision 26/2 - improperly marked hazard - might also help http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-26

BTW. I'm another that's a bit confused about your explanation. A picture might help!

 

[SammmeBee]

No need for a Decision - it's in the Definitions.......

 

[Foxholer]

No need for a Decision - it's in the Definitions.......

Have a look at the Decision I referred to then!

 

[chrisd]

As near as I can remember it