Knockout Terms of the Competition

[Length]

My club has missed removing members who have put their names down for knockouts that do not meet the terms of competition. They have been included in the draws. Then on realising this error have decided to leave them in. Handicap restrictions and number of qualifiers required are the criteria not met.

I have questioned this but it appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

Can anyone give me any official information on this situation, is it breaching the RoG even?

 

[doublebogey7]

Interesting, what ISV are you using, and do you know if anyone was withdrawn before the draw was made. I ask my club has identified one player that had entered a couple of knockouts without the required number of cards, but IG had not flagged them up. Others had been identified by IG and those were withdrawn before the draw was made.

In terms of your question, all I would say is that the committee are potentially making a rod for there own back and will open themselves up for justified criticism from members. I am not sure a rule of golf has been broken, as any ruling on the TOC is down to the committee in charge.

 

[jim8flog]

As per DB7 rules of the comp in this situation has nothing to do with the RoG.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As per DB7 rules of the comp in this situation has nothing to do with the RoG.

Is there not a rule of golf that says that the Ts&Cs of entry and play of a competition cannot be changed once the competition has started.

 

[Length]

Is there not a rule of golf that says that the Ts&Cs of entry and play of a competition cannot be changed once the competition has started.

I have now spotted this in the rules:
“Changing Terms of the Competition After Competition Has Started:
The Terms of the Competition set out the structure of the competition and once a competition has started, the terms may be altered only in very exceptional circumstances.”
I doubt human error qualifies as very exceptional circumstances.

 

[rulie]

I have now spotted this in the rules:
“Changing Terms of the Competition After Competition Has Started:
The Terms of the Competition set out the structure of the competition and once a competition has started, the terms may be altered only in very exceptional circumstances.”
I doubt human error qualifies as very exceptional circumstances.

Has the competition "started"? Has anyone started a match?

 

[Neilds]

Agree it is nothing to do with the Rules of Golf but, imo, the committee have to redo the draw as players who didn’t enter as they knew they didn’t ‘qualify’ are likely to kick up a right stink and it will only lead to the proverbial can of worms being opened for future competitions.

 

[doublebogey7]

Update. If anyone in here is responsible for running knockouts on IG, I suggest you do a manual check of all entries if you have specified a number of scores as a requirement of entry. We have idenified a few that were not flagged up by the software and as a consequence we have been forced to re-draw one competion over a week after the original draw. Not ideal but better than letting players continue, despite not meeting the entry criteria.

 

[Length]

Has the competition "started"? Has anyone started a match?

Yes, doesn’t the comp start as soon as the knockout matches are posted with their play by dates?

 

[doublebogey7]

Yes, doesn’t the comp start as soon as the knockout matches are posted with their play by dates?

I would say the competition hasn't started until the first match tee's it up.

 

[jim8flog]

Is there not a rule of golf that says that the Ts&Cs of entry and play of a competition cannot be changed once the competition has started.

Ref the OP the comp has not started just the draw made.

 

[Length]

Ref the OP the comp has not started just the draw made.

Well matches have started anyway.

 

[rulefan]

Well matches have started anyway.

A player’s round starts when the player makes a stroke to start their first hole (see Rule 6.1a).

 

[Steven Rules]

I have now spotted this in the rules:
“Changing Terms of the Competition After Competition Has Started:
The Terms of the Competition set out the structure of the competition and once a competition has started, the terms may be altered only in very exceptional circumstances.”
I doubt human error qualifies as very exceptional circumstances.

On an important point of distinction, this is not a Rule of Golf, it is from the Committee Procedures, which is guidance for committees on best practice.

From the Rules, Rules 20.2d and 20.2f might be relevant.

20.2d deals with correcting administrative mistakes.

20.2f Ineligible Player
There is no time limit for correcting the results of a competition when a player who has competed is found to be ineligible according to the Terms of the Competition. This applies even after the result of a match is final or after a stroke-play competition has closed.
In these circumstances, the player is treated as if they had not entered the competition, as opposed to being disqualified, and the results are amended accordingly.

Having said that, I would agree with the sentiments of others. If the competition hasn't started, or even if it is in its infancy, cancel it, redo the draw, and start again.

 

[woofers]

Update. If anyone in here is responsible for running knockouts on IG, I suggest you do a manual check of all entries if you have specified a number of scores as a requirement of entry. We have idenified a few that were not flagged up by the software and as a consequence we have been forced to re-draw one competion over a week after the original draw. Not ideal but better than letting players continue, despite not meeting the entry criteria.

In counting the number of “qualifiers” or acceptable scores IG only picks up those that are recorded via IG, i.e they don’t include any competitions from away clubs that use other ISVs or EG General Play scores for example. You need to do a manual check if the amber triangle is shown against the players name.

 

[doublebogey7]

In counting the number of “qualifiers” or acceptable scores IG only picks up those that are recorded via IG, i.e they don’t include any competitions from away clubs that use other ISVs or EG General Play scores for example. You need to do a manual check if the amber triangle is shown against the players name.

Yes, I realise we have to check on the WHS portal all those that IG has flagged, but I don't understand what that has got to do with what happened at my club.

 

[Length]

On an important point of distinction, this is not a Rule of Golf, it is from the Committee Procedures, which is guidance for committees on best practice.

From the Rules, Rules 20.2d and 20.2f might be relevant.

20.2d deals with correcting administrative mistakes.

20.2f Ineligible Player
There is no time limit for correcting the results of a competition when a player who has competed is found to be ineligible according to the Terms of the Competition. This applies even after the result of a match is final or after a stroke-play competition has closed.
In these circumstances, the player is treated as if they had not entered the competition, as opposed to being disqualified, and the results are amended accordingly.

Having said that, I would agree with the sentiments of others. If the competition hasn't started, or even if it is in its infancy, cancel it, redo the draw, and start again.

Wow, someone knows their stuff, thanks for this info. I think pointing out Rule 20.2f will do the trick to force the club to correct their errors. Great Forum too.

 

[The Squirrel]

Wow, someone knows their stuff, thanks for this info. I think pointing out Rule 20.2f will do the trick to force the club to correct their errors. Great Forum too.

Worth noting that ‘guidance’ is not ‘rules’. It may persuade the committee to change their approach but it does not compel them to do so. Better tactics to be persuasive rather than demanding when referring them to this.

 

[rulie]

Also, "ineligible" caused by Committee error might be different than "ineligible" caused by the player's false entry.

 

[Swango1980]

It is breaching the Club's own turns of competition, and the Club themselves are oddly happy to live with their own breach.

Good luck, I can see you struggling. The club are either trying to save face, or save themselves the hassle it seems. Though they will get more hassle if others kick off because they didn't enter as thet didn't meet the criteria. Or if someone who didn't meet the criteria starts winning games and others complain.