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Jeremy Corbyn-Leadership quality?

pauldj42 said:
You stated “Him as leader of the Labour led that party through years of wilderness.”
He became Leader in Sept 2015.

Couple of facts from 2017 GE:

Labour made a net gain of 30 seats with 40.0% (its highest vote share since 2001 and the first time the party had gained seats since 1997). This was the closest result between the two major parties since Feb 74.

He increased Labour's share of the vote by more than any other of the party's election leaders since 1945.

Labour's proportion of the vote grew 9.6 per cent in the 2017 GE — the biggest swing since Clement Attlee shortly after the Second World War.

So going on the above, please explain the “years of wilderness”

I’d totally agree 2019 was a disaster, but seeing how he’d only been leader for 4 years and after the 2017 result possibly had the right to be optimistic, I’m at a loss to understand the years of wilderness.

I’m sure you can blame TM, but one further thing to consider:
TM increased her vote to 13,636,684 votes an increase of 5.5% on 2015

In Dec boris got 13,966,451 votes only a 1.2% increase on 2017.

A difference of 329,767 and you claimed it was the floating voters that found Corbyn unelectable, you could also use that statement to say boris was less popular than TM with tory voters.
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I refer myself to the honourable gentleman Socket rockets post. At the last GE 2019, Labour never got a bloody nose, they got there head kicked in.
 
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Tashyboy said:
I refer myself to the honourable gentleman Socket rockets post. At the last GE 2019, Labour never got a bloody nos, they got there head kicked in.
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Tash, I give you more credit than that, you still haven’t answered my point to you and the quote you made.
Siding with a troll does nothing for your credibility.
 
Paul don’t get me wrong re Labour, there is no one more desperate than me for Labour to change. A strong Labour needs to challenge the Tories. A line needs to be drawn under Corbyn years and the Party needs to move on. if lessons are not learned the Tories will be in for a generation.
 
Tashyboy said:
Paul don’t get me wrong re Labour, there is no one more desperate than me for Labour to change. A strong Labour needs to challenge the Tories. A line needs to be drawn under Corbyn years and the Party needs to move on. if lessons are not learned the Tories will be in for a generation.
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And I’ve agreed and stated on here many times I’m no fan of Corbyn and the direction he and others took the Labour Party, but neither posts explain you saying about the wilderness, it just didn’t make sense.
 
pauldj42 said:
Tash, I give you more credit than that, you still haven’t answered my point to you and the quote you made.
Siding with a troll does nothing for your credibility.
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As an ex miner I have had more promises from Labour than I care to remember. Yet when you look at the bottom line. Labour shut as many pits as the Tories did. Labour stole as much money from my pension as the Tories did and still do. Not only that the Labour Party could of righted a wrong re my pension, they didn’t. So when Jeremy comes along, people like me are all ears.
It always seemed to me that Labour were always waiting for the Tories to self implode rather than win votes on there manifestos. Don’t get me wrong it nearly happened a few time’s. But the more you heard about Jeremy the more you became disconnected from Him. I said this before the last election and I am still saying it. The problem for Jeremy and the Labour Party is that hundreds of thousands of other working class voters feel exactly the same.
So where does that leave Jeremy and Labour. For me, him hanging around will do more damage than good for the party. Re the electorate, he has nothing left to offer. Him, DA, JM need to step aside not just for the good of the party but the good of the country.
 
Tashyboy said:
As an ex miner I have had more promises from Labour than I care to remember. Yet when you look at the bottom line. Labour shut as many pits as the Tories did. Labour stole as much money from my pension as the Tories did and still do. Not only that the Labour Party could of righted a wrong re my pension, they didn’t. So when Jeremy comes along, people like me are all ears.
It always seemed to me that Labour were always waiting for the Tories to self implode rather than win votes on there manifestos. Don’t get me wrong it nearly happened a few time’s. But the more you heard about Jeremy the more you became disconnected from Him. I said this before the last election and I am still saying it. The problem for Jeremy and the Labour Party is that hundreds of thousands of other working class voters feel exactly the same.
So where does that leave Jeremy and Labour. For me, him hanging around will do more damage than good for the party. Re the electorate, he has nothing left to offer. Him, DA, JM need to step aside not just for the good of the party but the good of the country.
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You’ve said all this before Tash and I agree he needs gone, obviously you have no intention of addressing the only point I questioned you on.
Have a nice evening.(y)
 
pauldj42 said:
And I’ve agreed and stated on here many times I’m no fan of Corbyn and the direction he and others took the Labour Party, but neither posts explain you saying about the wilderness, it just didn’t make sense.
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in 2015, Jeremy Corbyn took over as leader. the Tories had a majority of 12 seats.
in 2017, after a couple of years of Tory in fighting the Tories had a minority of 5.
in 2019, The Tories had a majority of 80 seats.

That is a proper arse kicking.

However let’s look at Corbyn and not the party.
Between 1997 and 2010 he defied his own party/ the whip 428 times, the most of any Labour MP. He could not even support his own party.
In the 2010 party leadership race, he put his support behind Diane Abbot. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus, that alone is enough to question his ability to judge and lead.
In June 2016, he lost a vote of no confidence in him by a massive 172-40. Yet he stayed on as he said the vote had no “constitutional legitimacy". He was told by nigh on 80% of his Labour mps he was not fit to lead the party but ignores them.
Do I have to mention his inability to deal with anti Semitic.
What about his willing the UK to leave NATO. Furthermore an end to NATO.
What about Corbyn opposing a motion by Harringey to offer support to British troops during the falklands war.
what about Corbyn opposing NATOs involvement in Kosovo ( and the stopping of further genocide).
what about Corbyns stance on Venezuela,

The list re this odious man both in the UK and the rest of the world makes Trump look intelligent. Google Corbyn on Wikipedia.
 
pauldj42 said:
You’ve said all this before Tash and I agree he needs gone, obviously you have no intention of addressing the only point I questioned you on.
Have a nice evening.(y)
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Addressed , it just takes time to find the answers to your question ?

hope that explains why people could not vote for him.
 
Tashyboy said:
in 2015, Jeremy Corbyn took over as leader. the Tories had a majority of 12 seats.
in 2017, after a couple of years of Tory in fighting the Tories had a minority of 5.
in 2019, The Tories had a majority of 80 seats.

That is a proper arse kicking.

However let’s look at Corbyn and not the party.
Between 1997 and 2010 he defied his own party/ the whip 428 times, the most of any Labour MP. He could not even support his own party.
In the 2010 party leadership race, he put his support behind Diane Abbot. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus, that alone is enough to question his ability to judge and lead.
In June 2016, he lost a vote of no confidence in him by a massive 172-40. Yet he stayed on as he said the vote had no “constitutional legitimacy". He was told by nigh on 80% of his Labour mps he was not fit to lead the party but ignores them.
Do I have to mention his inability to deal with anti Semitic.
What about his willing the UK to leave NATO. Furthermore an end to NATO.
What about Corbyn opposing a motion by Harringey to offer support to British troops during the falklands war.
what about Corbyn opposing NATOs involvement in Kosovo ( and the stopping of further genocide).
what about Corbyns stance on Venezuela,

The list re this odious man both in the UK and the rest of the world makes Trump look intelligent. Google Corbyn on Wikipedia.
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Mate, just accept your statement was garbage, you were on about his time as Leader, I fully agree with you on 2019 GE, the above is simply white noise, I don’t know if you’re trying to convince me or yourself.
 
pauldj42 said:
Mate, just accept your statement was garbage, you were on about his time as Leader, I fully agree with you on 2019 GE, the above is simply white noise, I don’t know if you’re trying to convince me or yourself.
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going from an opposition position of 12 seat majority to 80 is not progress.

like Ave said many a time politics in this country is up poo st. The Tories will not change until the Labour Party does. Until Corbyn is gone, the party cannot move on. That’s my view, will I convince anyone on here.I very much doubt it as everyone’s circumstances are different.
 
Tashyboy said:
going from an opposition position of 12 seat majority to 80 is not progress.

like Ave said many a time politics in this country is up poo st. The Tories will not change until the Labour Party does. Until Corbyn is gone, the party cannot move on. That’s my view, will I convince anyone on here.I very much doubt it as everyone’s circumstances are different.
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Almost everyone, even the most ardent Labour supporters on here agree he needs to go and he is.
No one has claimed going from 12 seats to 80 is progress.
But back to the original point you saying 2015-2019 was years of wilderness is not correct.
 
Tashyboy said:
Unfortunately the fact remains he was a massive reason why Labour got tanked at the last election. Him getting a position in any shadow cabinet would be a massive own goal and would be confirmation that the left wing of Labours politics has not gone away.
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Why would Labour want to move away from left wing politics when that’s exactly what they’re meant to stand for?
 
Kellfire said:
Why would Labour want to move away from left wing politics when that’s exactly what they’re meant to stand for?
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1/ It is the degree of left wing

2/ Do they want to be in power? It is the question Blair asked, do you want to be a pressure group or do you want to be in power to make genuine change for the good (not word for word quote)
 
Lord Tyrion said:
1/ It is the degree of left wing

2/ Do they want to be in power? It is the question Blair asked, do you want to be a pressure group or do you want to be in power to make genuine change for the good (not word for word quote)
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If they didn’t have left wing policies, they wouldn’t be doing the good I want from them.
 
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