It's gone, where did it go & why ????????????????

[Bomber69]

Not sure if I have missed anything but it seems that the thread from yesterday about the Pope has gone, can I ask why or where has it gone.

 

[One Planer]

It was degenerating into a bit of a mess (from what I've read of it this morning) so it was removed by one of the moderator team.

I have no idea which one, I didn't get on here much yesterday through looking after my boy.

 

[Bomber69]

It was degenerating into a bit of a mess (from what I've read of it this morning) so it was removed by one of the moderator team.

I have no idea which one, I didn't get on here much yesterday through looking after my boy.

Not from what i seen it never a few jokes here and there but nothing OTT and most folk were open minded and accepting that the thread was okay.

Seems a bit harsh that it has been pulled by a Mod and that there was no reason given as to why or indeed at no point did a Mod indicate that it was riding close to wind and in danger of being pulled.

Strange rather strange if you ask me.

Another sign of the Mod culture on here......................

 

[bladeplayer]

I was looking for it aswell ha , pity as i was enjoying the discussion ..

didnt get chance to sign in last night so didnt get to check & cant comment on where it was going ..

Wouldnt blame the mods tho Bomber something must have went south , if the players play by the rules you wont notice the ref ,

 

[User20205]

Not from what i seen it never a few jokes here and there but nothing OTT and most folk were open minded and accepting that the thread was okay.

Seems a bit harsh that it has been pulled by a Mod and that there was no reason given as to why or indeed at no point did a Mod indicate that it was riding close to wind and in danger of being pulled.

Strange rather strange if you ask me.

Another sign of the Mod culture on here......................

I was going to post on this very subject. This place is turning into an absolute joke. Threads are pulled because one member may find them slightly controversial. It's censorship gone mad !! The same conversation would happen in pubs/workplaces/golf clubs all over the country, it's just popular debate. As long as nothing illegal is said what is the problem, if you don't agree with the content of the thread..................don't read it. The same applies to members who report others for (*&%$)ing out words it's a complete nonsense.

This place is brilliant for arranging games etc but unless the moderation handbrake is taken off, all that will be left are threads about 'which is the best glove', and Homer talking nonsense about being having a amazing range session.

I know some mod (probably Fragger, nothing personal Phil, you just seem to take your new job very seriously) will quote the forum rules to hide behind, but that's just a cop out !!

The rules are being misused and I'm not sure why ??

the rules are; no swearing, no abuse, no spamming anything else is nonsense :rant:

 

[User20205]

Infact I would go as far to say that this rule

1 To ensure the above guidelines are adhered to by forum members and that the ‘reputation of the forum’ (see below) is not damaged

is the most regularly broken. the reputation/image & quality of the forum is been negatively affected by over moderation !!!

 

[One Planer]

Infact I would go as far to say that this rule

1 To ensure the above guidelines are adhered to by forum members and that the ‘reputation of the forum’ (see below) is not damaged

is the most regularly broken. the reputation/image & quality of the forum is been negatively affected by over moderation !!!

What about this rule? To quote MikeH:

4 Posts that are offensive or in poor taste

If posts are reported, as they were, as offensive, then they are acted upon. Just because they are no offensive to you doesn't mean the same is so for everyone.

Morning all

Back in April 2009 I had to post a long message about the state of play as the forum had rather lost its way with too many petty squabbles being played out online, lots of bad language being used and in general forum rules, as they were at the time, being ignored.

Although I haven’t been as regular a visitor (and contributor) as I'd like to be of late I do still stop by to catch up on the chat. I also get emails from forumers flagging up stuff (good and bad)

From what I have seen (and been sent) it's time I posted again.

Almost all of the original post (reprinted below) is still relevant so please read it especially if you’re a newbie but in short the forum exists to provide a platform for golfers to chat about the game and also off topic stuff in the OOB section. However the following is not acceptable…

1 Posts that contain any sexist, racist, homophobic or sectarian content
2 Posts or PMs that are abusive to another forum member
3 Posts that contain swearing. This includes the use of asterisked out swear words or other thinly disguised swear words i.e. ‘fooked’. It might sound draconian but at least it leaves no room for confusion or what is and isn’t OK. I think everyone on here is smart enough to be able to find non-offensive ways of expressing themselves without having to resort to swearing and offending other forumers.
4 Posts that are offensive or in poor taste.
5 Posts that are spam - i.e. posts or messages that are purely posted in a bid to trying to promote or sell services or products.
6 Deliberately posting off topic messages in the wrong forum.
7 Using the for sale forum as an ebay style shop. The for sale forum is for the sale of your own kit you no longer want. (Please see stickied post in the for sale section for definitive rules regarding that section

The rules are the rules - no exceptions no matter who you are. If you transgress you can expect sanctions.

Humour, banter and lively debate are great and what makes the forum enjoyable to use – abuse isn’t. I accept this isn’t a black and white issue but as a rule of thumb don’t post stuff that you wouldn’t be happy to say to someone’s face.

Remember what you say to someone you know will (or should) be different in tone to what you’d say to a complete stranger. If some of the stuff on here – especially of late - was said to a stranger in a pub those who’d uttered it would likely get chinned.

The moderators are appointed by me and act on behalf of GM to try to ensure the forum runs to the guidelines as set down by GM.

A lot of stuff the mods have to deal with is a case of judgement – we ask them to act on the side of caution so even if you think its OK then that doesn’t mean they and GM will.

The mods don’t get it right everytime but the like everyone on here bar spambots they are human so prone to mistakes. If they make one it’s in good faith.

Over the last couple of years a few mods have retired as they don’t have the time get involved anymore so I'm looking to recruit some fresh blood to help out the stalwarts. Please email me if you are interested. It’s a thankless task, you don’t get paid but I might send you a dozen balls now and then. Please form an orderly queue.

As of now if a forum users PMs another forum user any personal abuse there will be no quiet words in your ear, pep talks or even stern warnings I will immediately ban you, your email and IP address – if I see fit that ban will be permanent.

The bottom line is if ‘the forum’ cant exercise a better degree of self-policing and/or accept moderator decisions with better grace then I will shut down the out of bounds section and make this a forum that solely focuses on golf with little room for banter.

I will also stop posting equipment-fitting opportunities on the forum and run them via another channel.

It’ll be dull as you like but it’ll be easy to manage and won’t risk compromising the reputation of Golf Monthly and its parent companies (IPC Media/Time Inc).

If you don’t like the above (or below) its probably time to find another golf forum to get involved in. I’d be confident you’d miss us more than we’ll miss you.


Mike Harris
(GM editor)


I'd be fairly confident that everyone who is signed up to be a member of this forum would agree with the ethos/idea that this forum should be about...

Golf chat, free speech, heated debates and off topic discussions, arranging games of golf, selling on your unwanted kit to other forumers and finding answer to a query you have.

So, having been off the forum since yesterday lunchtime and logged on to catch up on stuff but instead see all the angry/accusatory threads that have been flying around left me feeling a bit saddened.

I think one of the major issues is that there haven't been clear guidelines issued by GM on what is and isn't acceptable in terms of posts and that's 100% MY fault. It is (finally) addressed below.

Once the GM forum grew so much that it got beyond self-policing and I felt the GM staff and I really needed help to keep an eye on what was going on, as we simply can't be on the forum as much as we'd like.

So I asked for volunteers to put their hands up to act as moderators in a bid to keep everything running as smoothly as possible. I received a number of emails from those who wanted to help out and appointed 6 moderators. I made my choice based on who I thought would do the job well, how long they'd been forum members and how much they'd contributed to date to the forum (a combined total of over 10,000 posts) and the fact that in my opinion all of them typified the 'vibe' of the forum.

Again it was remiss of me not to post what responsibilities/authority moderators have and again this had lead to some understandable confusion

Much of it is common sense and also in the sub text of each forum already but so it's all here in black and white here goes...

* What is not acceptable...
1 Posts that contain any sexist, racist or homophobic content
2 Posts or PMs that are abusive to another forum member
3 Posts that contain swearing. I feel this also includes the use of asterisked out swear words. I think everyone on here is smart enough to be able to find non offensive ways of expressing themselves without having to resort to swearing and offending any other former.
4 Posts that are spam - i.e. posts or messages that are purely posted in a bid to trying to promote or sell services or products.
5 Deliberately posting off topic messages in the wrong forum.
6 Using the for sale forum as an ebay style shop. The for sale forum is for the sale of your own kit you no longer want.

* Moderator responsibilities/authorities
1 To ensure the above guidelines are adhered to by forum members and that the ‘reputation of the forum’ (see below) is not damaged
2 To move posts to the correct sub forum if they have been posted
3 If necessary remove a post/thread if in the moderators opinion it is unsuitable for any of the forums listed on the GM site
4 To alert GM staff to any issues that they feel they do not have the authority to deal with.

* Sticky posts - Only I or the other GM staff (not moderators) have the ability to make a post sticky and I use my judgement as to what I think is worth stickying because they are either a) important b) I don’t want the getting knocked on to page 2 and so out of sight before I feel enough forumers have had the opportunity to see it.

I will make a post sticky because it might be a bit of research we need your help with, feedback on what new things on the mag or online you'd like to see, a poll, an important bit of news to share or to celebrate and highlight one of the very best things about the forum - the get togethers/games of golf/matches that are happening. And for that reason I felt the England Scotland match, Ascot forum meet deserved stickying as they both involved circa 20 members. I always try to make the subject line of the post as uncryptic as possible so as not to waste anyone’s time and these posts are not stickyed forever so if you're not interested in the content or if you feel it doesn’t apply to you then quite simply, don’t read it!

* “The reputation of the forum”
I have always said that this forum belongs to the forumers. Sure, IPC Media the owners of GM host it but it would be nothing without the forumers who are members and post here. That said it does not reflect well on the forum (and by association the Golf Monthly brand and IPC Media) if either potential new forumers who are considering joining in, or GM advertisers have a look in at what’s going on and see fellow forumers name-calling and being abusive to one another. If that happens either the moderators or me will act to move/remove posts and as a very last resort if a forumer does not adhere to the rules, implement a temporary or even permanent ban.

Apologies for the long-winded ramble but I feel a number of things needed outlining and clarifying. I will leave this a sticky post for two days but have put a copy in the “How To Use” the Forum sub forum

 

[User20205]

If posts are reported, as they were, as offensive, then they are acted upon. Just because they are no offensive to you doesn't mean the same is so for everyone.

you're always gonna find someone who is offended, if I see another what 'glove is best' or 'what ball should i use' post in the lounge I may pop with rage

if you take all of the substance & colour out of the forum you're gonna bet left with beige !!!no one likes beige !

The 'would you have this conversation in the golf club' is a good test. Certainly talk about current affairs should be allowed

You can't deny the tone of the forum has changed


it seems to me if a post is reported it is pulled automatically, irrespective of if the complaint is valid

 

[chris661]

it seems to me if a post is reported it is pulled automatically, irrespective of if the complaint is valid

It may seem that way but not always. Normally decisions are taken after a brief consultation between the mods but that always isnt possible. I think the post that Gareth quoted from Mike makes it pretty clear how Mike wants the forum run.

 

[stevie_r]

Valentino complained about it - apparently we were 'mocking'. Whether we were mocking the Catholic Church in general, or Ratzi the Nazi specifically I don't know.

Let's hope there are no posts that say anything derogatory about Her Majesty; as she is the Defender of my Faith and the Supreme Governor of the Church of England I would find that truly offensive on religious grounds

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

btw - I wasn't really offended by the thread as I have only a passing and intellectual interest in catholicism - however I am disapponted when 'jokes' are made 'against' religion in such circumstances - when the 'jokes' to many may not be funny and could be offensive. There is also the risk that they drift into fairly dodgy territory in respect of taste and decency - as they could/would easily do in the case of a catholic priest with a youth background such as the current Pope's.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...or Ratzi the Nazi

You see - just not very funny.

- also you member of the Church of England ?

 

[One Planer]

you're always gonna find someone who is offended, if I see another what 'glove is best' or 'what ball should i use' post in the lounge I may pop with rage

Which is true,but just because a user is offended doesn't mean the thread is automatically pulled, that's just an assumption. Not every thread that gets reported gets pulled from view. It's actually quite a small minority.

if you take all of the substance & colour out of the forum you're gonna bet left with beige !!!no one likes beige !

The 'would you have this conversation in the golf club' is a good test. Certainly talk about current affairs should be allowed

You can't deny the tone of the forum has changed

Which is all well and good if discussing the subject with like minded people. If you were discussing the affore mentioned thread with a devout Catholic, would you have used some of the comments/quips used on the thread? I think not.

I'm all for a good debate. I love discussing the fine points of a poistion with people and debating each other perspective. However, threads on here when discussing current affairs, such as the papal resignation, Rangers into administration, Scottish independence threas from not too long back, and others tend to degenerate at a rate of notts, simply because peoples opinions differ.

With difference of opinion comes argument.

It was crystal clear which way that thread was heading. In that instance there is a dilema.

a) Allow the thread to run, only to close it because it's degenerated to a point that is either off topic,mute or going over the same ground.

or

b) Close the thread and then get accused of being over zealous and over modding the forum.

Either way, for a moderator it's a lose/lose situation.

Generally, we discuss the thread in question and try and decide on the best course of action, but as, Chris says, sometimes it's not always possible. If as a whole the moderators decide to close a thread, it's nothing personal against anyone, only in the best interest of the forum.

it seems to me if a post is reported it is pulled automatically, irrespective of if the complaint is valid

Valid in whose opinion? Yours? Mine? The OP's?

As I said eariler. Just because a thread is reported to moderators doesn't always mean action is taken. If you could see how many posts get reported over the course of a week and compare to how many get a serious level of acton taken, I think you'd be quite surprised at the figure.

I myself have reported posts where I'm unsure of whether action is required and often the answer is "Let it run".

Bottom line is this. GM set the rules of the fourm, not us. We only try and enforce the rules by which all users agreed to when they joined the forum. If a thread falls foul, offensive or to the points described above, then we have to act.

 

[User20205]

You see - just not very funny.

- also you member of the Church of England ?

you're right not funny & also not accurate.

I'm all for a good debate. I love discussing the fine points of a poistion with people and debating each other perspective. However, threads on here when discussing current affairs, such as the papal resignation, Rangers into administration, Scottish independence threas from not too long back, and others tend to degenerate at a rate of notts, simply because peoples opinions differ.

I appreciate the feedback from you & phil via PM, but there is a common thread.... it seems to me that those sweaties are far too touchy

 

[stevie_r]

You see - just not very funny.

- also you member of the Church of England ?

My religion is C of E yes

 

[stevie_r]

you're right not funny & also not accurate.





I appreciate the feedback from you & phil via PM, but there is a common thread.... it seems to me that those sweaties are far too touchy

Who you calling a sweaty sock?

 

[User20205]

Who you calling a sweaty sock?

see!!

 

[stevie_r]

see!!

you massively missed the point there

 

[El Bandito]

I can't comment on the thread, as I only saw the short message this morning saying that the thread had been pulled.

For the record, my father was a Scot and despite my English accent, I support Scotland in all sports, followed by Ireland. I come from a Catholic family, support the union of the United Kingdom and can take a joke. With a golf swing like mine you have to be thick-skinned!

On the mods and what they are tasked to do, I am a member on one of the US forums, which I suspect is built on an identical piece of software as this one. They have a section called the Debate room, which is only visible to members who opt into it. Threads that err on the slightly hotter topics get moved there where the rules are 'lighter touch'. That way, those that are comfortable with a bit of 'edge' opt in and those that don't don't.

simples:sbox:

 

[stevie_r]

I can't comment on the thread, as I only saw the short message this morning saying that the thread had been pulled.

For the record, my father was a Scot and despite my English accent, I support Scotland in all sports, followed by Ireland. I come from a Catholic family, support the union of the United Kingdom and can take a joke. With a golf swing like mine you have to be thick-skinned!

On the mods and what they are tasked to do, I am a member on one of the US forums, which I suspect is built on an identical piece of software as this one. They have a section called the Debate room, which is only visible to members who opt into it. Threads that err on the slightly hotter topics get moved there where the rules are 'lighter touch'. That way, those that are comfortable with a bit of 'edge' opt in and those that don't don't.

simples:sbox:

I like the sound of that idea.