Is Tiger REALLY 'the greatest player who has ever played the game'?

[MattysDad]

Getting back to the thread....

Tiger is good, very good, and entertaining. He may well be the best at the moment, and he may break some records, but I think there are better players coming up behind him.

Who? and how better?

 

[Herbie]

I went to work with split ends. Does that count?

I worry that you knew you had split ends?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

One thing mentione on here is Woods playing the seniors tour. I really don't think that will happen as he won't have the appetite. Whilst he may try and beat Sneads record (and I don't think it'll bother him) he is after the most majors. After that I can see him taking a much less prominent position in terms of playing and concentrating more on business affairs such as course and club design and family life with his kids.

He has already gone on record a number of times about how little time he had with his dad when he was serving in the forces and I think he doesn't want to be travelling and way from the family (especially when the kids go to school) more than he has to.

 

[Herbie]

Oh thats right Tiger just had a sore knee, its not like it needed reconstructive surgery and eight months out of the game. Tiger won the US Open carrying a major sports injury one your precious rugby player would have left the feild with.

I know someone who had reconstructive surgery on their knee, it was called amputation, he was back at it in 6 months and over a 4 yr period went from beginner golfer to 8 h/c, oh how Tigers injury must have been the most serious mankind as ever known????

Hes a popular chap with lots of money....he will have been pampered and media will have made his case worthy of publication, Im not saying he didnt have a bad knee, but if he had a wasp bite on his knee the media would say he's in intensive care on life support for 10 yrs, if you get my meaning....errr maybe not??

 

[Fore]

During my time i have had the honour of seeing Nicklaus, Faldo, Norman, Jacklin & Ballesteros amongst others. But in my book none of them come close to Tiger.
He may not be the greatest yet if you go by the numbers, but it is only going to be a matter of time.

 

[Macster]

Re: Is Tiger REALLY 'the greatest player who has ever played the game'

This was bound to be a hugely contentious topic, one that split the forum on views and opinions, and Ive merely skipped thru the replies and can see that it lived up my expectations.

I make no bones about not liking Tiger, I find him petulant, arrogant, miserable, and downright rude sometimes, and personally, I liked it when he was out injured.

However, I dont deny that he is, and has been for some time, the most talented and consistent Golfer on the planet, not only in terms of his power and shots, but probably more so in terms of his mental strength and desire to win.
Yes, he's very very good.

But, how do we measure 'greatness' ?

Is it in ability, or popularity, or the number of wins, etc etc ?
Or is it all those things, but also with a huge helping of humility and a demeanor that endears that person to almost everyone universally ?

For me, its a combination of all that, and sadly, over the last 2years, I have seen more of a Tiger that I dont like,....... than the one I used to like when he started to really dominate.

Whilst none of us can argue that TW is the most 'successful' golfer of all time, and will very very likely overtake Jack's Major's record quite quickly, I dont personally count him anywhere even close to the previous 'Greats' of the game such as Nicklaus, Seve, Norman, & Watson, to name but a few.

I saw more greatness watching Tom Watson at Turnberry over the last 2 days than I have seen from Tiger in the last 2 years.

I think it would be different if his father was still around, but sadly, he isnt.

Unless something slaps him across the face and wakes him up from this dream of self-importance he seems to be living in, he'll remain a non member of the 'Real Greats' list for many many people I fear.

 

[freddielong]

For Tiger to be at the TOP of the sport and win with an injury is INCREDIBLE. I have a bad wrist and my swing is awful as I can't commit to the shot at all without 'waiting for the pain', I couldn't hit a cows arse with a shovel right now.

Trust me, you can play with a knee injury, even a biggish one (and ACL damage isn't that big a deal anymore, certainly not the Steve Austin measure that freddiewrong seems to think it is). Yes, it'll be sore as hell but it won't interfere the way a wrist injury will.

Absolute rubbish you see the force that Tiger swings all that goes through his left knee (if you knew anything about the mechanics of a golf swing you would know that) and how can you say that acl damage is no big deal yes it can be fixed it most instances but it finnished Ernie as a competetive golfer. And you would not get a footballer or rugby player on the pitch with that type of injury.

 

[birdieman]

Re: Is Tiger REALLY 'the greatest player who has ever played the game'

This was bound to be a hugely contentious topic, one that split the forum on views and opinions, and Ive merely skipped thru the replies and can see that it lived up my expectations.

I make no bones about not liking Tiger, I find him petulant, arrogant, miserable, and downright rude sometimes, and personally, I liked it when he was out injured.

However, I dont deny that he is, and has been for some time, the most talented and consistent Golfer on the planet, not only in terms of his power and shots, but probably more so in terms of his mental strength and desire to win.
Yes, he's very very good.

But, how do we measure 'greatness' ?

Is it in ability, or popularity, or the number of wins, etc etc ?
Or is it all those things, but also with a huge helping of humility and a demeanor that endears that person to almost everyone universally ?

For me, its a combination of all that, and sadly, over the last 2years, I have seen more of a Tiger that I dont like,....... than the one I used to like when he started to really dominate.

Whilst none of us can argue that TW is the most 'successful' golfer of all time, and will very very likely overtake Jack's Major's record quite quickly, I dont personally count him anywhere even close to the previous 'Greats' of the game such as Nicklaus, Seve, Norman, & Watson, to name but a few.

I saw more greatness watching Tom Watson at Turnberry over the last 2 days than I have seen from Tiger in the last 2 years.

I think it would be different if his father was still around, but sadly, he isnt.

Unless something slaps him across the face and wakes him up from this dream of self-importance he seems to be living in, he'll remain a non member of the 'Real Greats' list for many many people I fear.

Don't agree with much you've said there Chris. I take your sentiments but professional sport is a ruthless business for better or worse nowadays and TW is as ruthless as they come.

Diego Maradona was great but wasn't a particularly upstanding person off or on the field. He cheated with drugs and handball etc but he was great for his ability above all else. He still remains a great of the game, as does Zinedine Zidane despite his head butting!

OJ Simpson was great but he's now a murderer and a robber (allegedly)! He was great for his ability on the field and remains a great in his sporting achivements at least.

Mike Tyson is a great but another flawed character with a lot of criminal convictions. I remember him as a younster flooring Trevor Berbick for his first world title as if it was yesterday - sensational fighter and defo a great.

Tiger Woods is a pretty decent upstanding individual who does quite a lot for charities and for deprived kids. So he doesn't care much for the media but that's because they misquote him, trick question him, basically do anything to sell papers and magazines?

Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer to have swung the clubs. Jack Nicklaus was more mannerly.

 

[Macster]

Re: Is Tiger REALLY 'the greatest player who has ever played the game'

Freddie: Im not sure who's comment that was that you have taken issue with, but to put you straight.......

I badly tore my ACL at 18 playing Rugby, in 1980, which was pre- reconstructive days, and almost instantly it stopped me playing any more contact sports like Rugby & football.
Nowadays, recovering from this injury is common, and many do go back to playing professionally again.

However, a few years later I took up Golf, and my knee issues were never a problem.
I recently underwent keyhole surgery again for a slight tear in what cartilage is left in my knee, and was advised that my ACL was in fact now completely ruptured, and has been for quite some years.
Now whilst the difficiences in my knee overall have sometimes been 'uncomfortable', and now @ 47 I use a Powakaddy etc, I have managed to play to a fairly good standard with NO ACL at all, and I am 15stone.

I therefore dont see TW knee issues of any great relevence at all in the overall picture, and certainly dont elevate him as a result of 'recovering' from the ACL surgery.
Whilst Ernie Els may not be the winner he once was, I dont think that has much to do with his knee now.

 

[Herbie]

Re: Is Tiger REALLY 'the greatest player who has ever played the game'

The question of the OP is clear, I think we are all making it cloudy.

Today Tiger is the best player in many respects, what makes a complete golfer in my book takes a little more than just skill,but thats another issue.
On a skill comparison to Jack or many of the greats I would say he is better due to the modern fitness of tour golfers and to some degree the technology available as well as the way he manages his game. Had Tiger been from the same era Im not so sure he would have been as successful, but that we will never know.

Is he the greatest player ever? No! but he might be capable of exceeding others achievements in time and become so.
Is he the greatest complete golfer? Not to me he isnt and he probably never will be on the same shelf as some of the previous greats.

 

[toonarmy]

Absolute rubbish you see the force that Tiger swings all that goes through his left knee (if you knew anything about the mechanics of a golf swing you would know that)

Ah thank you mr wrong for displaying your superior knowledge of biomechanics. After all, what would I know about it? Oh, my experience in the field that would be it...

and how can you say that acl damage is no big deal yes it can be fixed it most instances but it finnished Ernie as a competetive golfer.

In real sporting terms it isn't, especially for golf. I can say this because it is what we call 'fact' substantiated by case studies, research and current practise. It used to be, but hasn't been for a while.

And I can only assume your total ignorance or insensitivity explains your comment about Els. If you need more, I suggest you look at the article in GM with him to understand where Ernie's form went and why.

And you would not get a footballer or rugby player on the pitch with that type of injury.

I never said you would. The point I made is that Dallaglio was back playing international rugby union in a shorter time frame than nancy boy returned to the oh-so-physical golf scene with the same injury - actually scrap that, it was worse as the level of rupture was more severe caused by the explosive nature of the injury rather than a build up which is what Woods had.

My original point remains. Woods is neither hard nor heroic for playing in the first place and most definitely was not Wolverine-like in his recovery in either time or condition.

However, I'll let freddie continue to bang on in his ill-informed way as he seems to enjoy it so.

 

[DAC]

McIlroy is my tip for the future.

 

[freddielong]

Absolute rubbish you see the force that Tiger swings all that goes through his left knee (if you knew anything about the mechanics of a golf swing you would know that)

Ah thank you mr wrong for displaying your superior knowledge of biomechanics. After all, what would I know about it? Oh, my experience in the field that would be it...

and how can you say that acl damage is no big deal yes it can be fixed it most instances but it finnished Ernie as a competetive golfer.

In real sporting terms it isn't, especially for golf. I can say this because it is what we call 'fact' substantiated by case studies, research and current practise. It used to be, but hasn't been for a while.

And I can only assume your total ignorance or insensitivity explains your comment about Els. If you need more, I suggest you look at the article in GM with him to understand where Ernie's form went and why.

And you would not get a footballer or rugby player on the pitch with that type of injury.

I never said you would. The point I made is that Dallaglio was back playing international rugby union in a shorter time frame than nancy boy returned to the oh-so-physical golf scene with the same injury - actually scrap that, it was worse as the level of rupture was more severe caused by the explosive nature of the injury rather than a build up which is what Woods had.

My original point remains. Woods is neither hard nor heroic for playing in the first place and most definitely was not Wolverine-like in his recovery in either time or condition.

However, I'll let freddie continue to bang on in his ill-informed way as he seems to enjoy it so.

Loon Army seems you have all the answers being as you are so clever.
What I do not understand is giving that you play golf you do not accept that pain in any way would undermine your golf swing, and for Tiger to be at the top of an elite feild carrying a injury is a major major acheviement.Maybe the standard of golf you play pain makes little difference, perhaps even helps.

I assume therefore that Tigers grimacing during the final round and the grinding noise coming from his knee, just proves that Tiger is an excellent actor aswell as a brilliant golfer.

Looking forward to seeing Newcastle in the first division were there fans belong