Is soggy sand an abnormal course condition?

[LincolnShep]

Is there a definition of how wet the sand (in a bunker) needs to be to count as an abnormal course condition?

Played yesterday and one of my fellow competitors took relief as his ball was in a puddle at the bottom of a bunker, but claimed his NPCR was outside the bunker due to the sand being soggy and the likelihood that the ball would plug when dropped. The same thing happened to me later in the round and I just accepted a slightly plugged lie.

If I'm right, he played from a wrong place. If he's right, I didn't take complete relief. Neither of us were troubling the scorers so it's academic for that particular competition but I'd be interested on thoughts in case it happens again.

 

[doublebogey7]

Below is the definition of Temporary Water, he would appear to me that he played from a Wrong Place, and was a serious breach so he should be disqualiified.

"Any temporary accumulation of water on the surface of the ground (such as puddles from rain or irrigation or an overflow from a body of water) that:

• Is not in a penalty area, and
• Can be seen before or after the player takes a stance (without pressing down excessively with his or her feet).

It is not enough for the ground to be merely wet, muddy or soft or for the water to be momentarily visible as the player steps on the ground; an accumulation of water must remain present either before or after the stance is taken."

 

[Neilds]

It always amazes me how many people think the N in NPR stands for 'NICEST'

 

[salfordlad]

Is there a definition of how wet the sand (in a bunker) needs to be to count as an abnormal course condition?

Played yesterday and one of my fellow competitors took relief as his ball was in a puddle at the bottom of a bunker, but claimed his NPCR was outside the bunker due to the sand being soggy and the likelihood that the ball would plug when dropped. The same thing happened to me later in the round and I just accepted a slightly plugged lie.

If I'm right, he played from a wrong place. If he's right, I didn't take complete relief. Neither of us were troubling the scorers so it's academic for that particular competition but I'd be interested on thoughts in case it happens again.

You are right that he is penalised. He incurs a penalty for going outside the bunker. When there is water in the bunker that interferes with lie, stance etc, the only free relief option is inside the bunker. There also is a one stroke penalty option to go back on a line (BOL). If where the player played from is within a correct relief area based on the line from original position to pin extended behind the bunker, then it is one stroke penalty under 16.1c(2). But if the ball was played from a location that does not qualify for that relief area then it is general penalty for wrong place.
"Soggy sand" does not exist for rules purposes - there is either water on the surface that interferes with lie, stance etc or there is not, which correlates with free relief or not. If the temporary water definition is not met, the options are unplayable ball inside the bunker (lateral or BOL) for 1SP or S&D for 1SP or unplayable ball outside the bunker BOL for 2SP.

 

[Steven Rules]

The other thing worth addiing here is that if complete relief is not available in the bunker then the free fallback option is using the point of maximum available relief in the bunker as the reference point. See definition of point of maximum available relief and Rule 16.1c(1).

 

[LincolnShep]

Thanks for the input everyone. Glad that my actions were right. Relieved that the incorrect actions of my FC were not significant to the results or his handicap.
It's the first time I can recall learning about the idea of maximum available relief. Hopefully I can remember that next time that I need it!

 

[Colin L]

Just for your amusement and not to do with bunkers, I once overhead someone at my club carefully explaining to another member that a test for casual water (it was some time ago) was pressing your foot behind your ball to see if water came up.

 

[salfordlad]

Thanks for the input everyone. Glad that my actions were right. Relieved that the incorrect actions of my FC were not significant to the results or his handicap.
It's the first time I can recall learning about the idea of maximum available relief. Hopefully I can remember that next time that I need it!

The maximum available relief option also applies to relief from an abnormal course condition on the putting green if there is nowhere that offers complete relief from the ACC. Unlike the bunker case, though, the point of maximum available relief - where the ball must be placed in the putting green relief case - may be on or off the green. See Rule 16.1d for the full story.

 

[salfordlad]

Just for your amusement and not to do with bunkers, I once overhead someone at my club carefully explaining to another member that a test for casual water (it was some time ago) was pressing your foot behind your ball to see if water came up.

I think I may have played with that person.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

You are right that he is penalised. He incurs a penalty for going outside the bunker. When there is water in the bunker that interferes with lie, stance etc, the only free relief option is inside the bunker. There also is a one stroke penalty option to go back on a line (BOL). If where the player played from is within a correct relief area based on the line from original position to pin extended behind the bunker, then it is one stroke penalty under 16.1c(2). But if the ball was played from a location that does not qualify for that relief area then it is general penalty for wrong place.
"Soggy sand" does not exist for rules purposes - there is either water on the surface that interferes with lie, stance etc or there is not, which correlates with free relief or not. If the temporary water definition is not met, the options are unplayable ball inside the bunker (lateral or BOL) for 1SP or S&D for 1SP or unplayable ball outside the bunker BOL for 2SP.

What am I missing here? It says 1 stroke penalty for BOL relief outside bunker in the R&A app, but I must be missing something in the details where there’s a difference of what you’re saying and the screen shot below?

Edit: Missed that you had already covered the 1 stroke penalty for BOL relief earlier in your post. All good!

 

[salfordlad]

What am I missing here? It says 1 stroke penalty for BOL relief outside bunker in the R&A app, but I must be missing something in the details where there’s a difference of what you’re saying and the screen shot below?

Edit: Missed that you had already covered the 1 stroke penalty for BOL relief earlier in your post. All good!

You have it - the distinction between 16.1c(2) and 19.3b.