Is normal putting actually anchoring ?

[sev112]

So I thought I'd do some putting practice today given the rubbish weather, and thought I'd start working out how I could use my (new!ish) belly putter without anchoring.

Then I got my normal Anser putter out, and worryingly noticed that WITH MY NORMAL PUTTER, I've noticed that my forearm from my elbow to about halfway to my wrists on both arms are connected to my waist during my traditional putting stroke.
So I spoke to a couple of mates /guys on the putting green and they were both quite similar.
Which suggests that our normal putting stroke with a 33" putter is also going to be illegal.

The extract from the rule is below in Note 2 . How in earth they will determine whether the inside of my forearm is in contact with my body, and whether it "establishes a stable point" I have no idea.




Note 2: An "anchor point" exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club.
Read more at http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/tours...-on-anchored-strokes.html#kd1CumYBpphVAAbT.99

 

[Crow]

If you're making a normal putting stroke then your hands aren't a stable point, they're moving with the club as you make your stroke and so this will be allowed.

The forearm in contact with the body will only be illegal if it's creating a stable pivot point, ie the hand and forearm don't move during the stroke.

 

[sev112]

Very interesting - how would one judge when it is somewhere between the two
In my stroke the arms move, but the part of my left arm which is touching my belly (whilst moving through the stroke) stays in contact

Difficult for a Rules official - we wil end up with video replays, warnings and then a penalty
God knows what happens in monthly medals

 

[Foxholer]

'Anchor point' and 'stable pivot point' are both singular. If your forearms are touching your waist on either side, you have 2 points, so there is no pivot point.

 

[Jackooo]

But isn't the argument with Belly Putters and Broomhandle Putters that the butt end of the club has to rotate freely around a point as opposed to sitting in a fulcrum of which it then rotates within? In your case the butt end of the club is moving freely and not directly anchored via the body?

 

[duncan mackie]

Very interesting - how would one judge when it is somewhere between the two
In my stroke the arms move, but the part of my left arm which is touching my belly (whilst moving through the stroke) stays in contact

Difficult for a Rules official - we wil end up with video replays, warnings and then a penalty
God knows what happens in monthly medals

not at all difficult - a stable, supported, gripping hand throughtout the stroke is blindingly obvious

in the example you are giving you seem to have supported arms which are neither stable, nor delivering a stable gripping hand.

 

[sev112]

Interesting - just been videoing myself putting
It is primarily the left elbow and upperpartvofmleft forearm that remains in contact throughout the stroke

I've just been watching Mickleson and some others demonstrating the Claw /Saw grip and they all mention the stability of the lead arm "locked in" to the body during the stroke, so a few of the law grippers may have fun also

In fact I've just also been trying out claw grip with my belly putter with various amounts of left forearm contact. This is going to be seriouslybdifficultbfor a rules official to judge.

I may email r&a and see what they think

 

[duncan mackie]

I've just been watching Mickleson and some others demonstrating the Claw /Saw grip and they all mention the stability of the lead arm "locked in" to the body during the stroke, so a few of the law grippers may have fun also

I

you might bother to read the responses you have had here first - in the claw/saw the lead hand moves; the end.

 

[sev112]

not at all difficult - a stable, supported, gripping hand throughtout the stroke is blindingly obvious

in the example you are giving you seem to have supported arms which are neither stable, nor delivering a stable gripping hand.

Sounds a good logic to me Duncan, that should keep me legal in 2016, and looking at the trials I've just been doing, the "supported claw" technique appears to be every bit as stable and consistent as the belly.

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[sev112]

Duncan
Just tried out two different strokes using exactly the same grip -withbmybleft forearm "fixed" to my side (deliberately to test the practicality of the rule as written by r&a)
1) with the putter head swing bybmy right hand pivottingbthe putter head around the fixed stable left hand (as per what you say would be illegal)
2) with the putter swung by my shoulders, with the putter head in the same relative position throughout (so no pivot about a fixed point, and hence legal)

I video'd both swings one after the other - you can hardly see the difference

I can also play an intermediate between the two.
Now the question is that I am not that good a golfer that I could always ensure that I didn't pivot it an.ittle bit in any one shot.

So if I am an honest golfer, I might make sure that I didn't use this type of (legal) swing in case I got a bit of pivot in there as well.

But it will be a nightmare in proper competitions. I can see similar scenarios to throwing in cricket and the Muralitharan issue, and golfers being allowed to have 15 degrees of pivot in any one swing, to be determined by high speed video and bio mechanical analysis




If I knew how to post a vid I would put it up.

 

[sev112]

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/~/media/RandA/Related Documents/2013/AnchoringInfograph.ashx

My stroke appears to be halfway between the permitted forearms held against body without anchor point, and the not-permitted anchor point created by forearm

Roll on 2016

 

[sev112]

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Anchoring/Anchoring-Guidelines.aspx

Which is the best source of guidance for what is and isn't legal.

It would appear that my "tiny bit of upper forearm" stroke is illegal, as is my "sometimes a little bit of pivot" is also illegal.

Instill don't know how they visually could tell either without a pressure sensor underneath my forearm.
Time for Hawkeye methinks

 

[JustOne]

I've just gone back to my 'Sergio' pencil grip.

Tried to be a bit more conventional this year but it's not working.

Sometimes the pencil grip feels so stable it feels like cheating

 

[sev112]

Although this does appear to indicate that R&A need to send John Paramore down to see me to advise ...

"If a player who intentionally holds his forearm against his body and stabilises the top gripping hand does not use an inverted top gripping hand and grips the club with his hands separated rather than touching one another, a determination will be required whether he has established that top hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club."

... " a determination will be required ..." .????? Can imagine that happening on Saturday medals


Sorry for the extended singular experimental debate - I don't normally go looking for ways to break rules, honest