Is common sense getting diluted through over zealous health & Safety?

[Khamelion]

Has common sense been diluted in recent generations and will future generations rely on what signs/warnings tell them is safe or not? Rather than use common sense to know?

This goes back a few years to where a women sued MacDonald's because her hot coffee scalded her and tat she wasn't warned that the contents would be hot as there was no warning on the cup. Okay this may have been more of a women looking out for what she can get, but claim was ruled in her favour and now said warning is on every cup, surely common sense tells you, if you have order hot coffee then the contents will be hot.

One for us golfers, where courses have public right of ways, the public just walk, or drive past without stopping to see if someone is about to play, again stupidity born out of greed I would guess the thinking being, "if I get hit I'll sue and be quids in", but not if they get and kills them, just like crossing the road, before you cross a golf course, stop, look and listen, but many don't.

There are many other examples where common sense could be applied, but is not.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Yes is the simple answer. That and the blame / suing culture that means everyone has to cover themselves. If people were not so greedy and out for themselves then we could go back to the era when accidents genuinely happened and they were no ones fault.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It's the same in most work places, the obsession with processes is killing innovation and the ability for employees to think for themselves and use their competence.

 

[Kellfire]

This goes back a few years to where a women sued MacDonald's because her hot coffee scalded her and tat she wasn't warned that the contents would be hot as there was no warning on the cup. Okay this may have been more of a women looking out for what she can get, but claim was ruled in her favour and now said warning is on every cup, surely common sense tells you, if you have order hot coffee then the contents will be hot.

This case isn't as simple as most people portray it - it's worth reading up on and there's a really good documentary based around it and the claiming culture in general on Netflix that's worth a watch.

In fact, here it is!

http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/Default.asp

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Saw a barney in the street the other day when a cyclist and lorry driver were going at it (insert usual eight pages of thread comments here). The cyclist yelled out at one point - "If you'd have hit me I'd have sued you"
To which some other guy watching just said, "no mate you'd be dead"

 

[woody69]

This goes back a few years to where a women sued MacDonald's because her hot coffee scalded her and tat she wasn't warned that the contents would be hot as there was no warning on the cup. Okay this may have been more of a women looking out for what she can get, but claim was ruled in her favour and now said warning is on every cup, surely common sense tells you, if you have order hot coffee then the contents will be hot.

That isn't quite what happened. Read this for the facts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

You're merely perpetuating a myth.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I fear that business would look to cut corners and dangerously so were H&S not so enforced. Business desire to maximise profit and the greed of some individuals in a culture where litigation is a norm has got us to where we are today. On the whole I think we are better off having strong H&S legislation in place - even though it can be very frustrating, baffling and expensive at times.

 

[Hobbit]

Damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I do a huge amount of work with our H&S team. I've gone from being cynical to understanding why, even if I still disagree with some of what they do.

Seriously, you should see some of the stupid things people do, e.g. a huge cylinder of compressed air stood on its end next to a door. Door opens, cylinder falls over, snapping off the regulator in the process and shoots the length of the workshop like a torpedo. Bl00dy big hole in the wall 30ft away across the workshop.

Unfortunately, common sense isn't that common.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I do a huge amount of work with our H&S team. I've gone from being cynical to understanding why, even if I still disagree with some of what they do.

Seriously, you should see some of the stupid things people do, e.g. a huge cylinder of compressed air stood on its end next to a door. Door opens, cylinder falls over, snapping off the regulator in the process and shoots the length of the workshop like a torpedo. Bl00dy big hole in the wall 30ft away across the workshop.

Unfortunately, common sense isn't that common.

As a new boss my first introduction to a greenkeeper was watching him fuel up a Flymo from a jerry can with a lit roll up in his hand.
He did not last long.

 

[Hobbit]

As a new boss my first introduction to a greenkeeper was watching him fuel up a Flymo from a jerry can with a lit roll up in his hand.
He did not last long.

I hope that was only figuratively speaking!

 

[Khamelion]

As pointed out by Kellfire and Woody, the MacDonald's example may be myth, or has suffered Chinese whispers, but the point is, why add warnings to items where common sense would tell you the same. On bags on peanuts, 'This bag contains nuts', well stone me, I was expecting a herd of marauding hippos to come bursting out when I opened the packet.

I was told one about how H&S wouldn't let work commence on the removal of the concrete that held a fence post in place, because the workman was going to be lifting and handling, but the concrete was below his feet, he was classed as working at height, and you can't lift and handle and work at height at the same time. Total tosh.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I hope that was only figuratively speaking!

I think there may have been a bit of a flare up and the guy got a roasting...

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Of course common sense has gone out of the window and sadly we are turning into more and more of a nanny state and so the problem will get worse especially when people can see a quick buck to be made from what 20 years ago would have been seen as their own stupidity or incompetence

 

[sev112]

Most of these debates have nothing to do with H&S - they are all to do with legal and risk approaches,
The next subset are Chinese whispers
The next subset are people not applying what the law actually says, and that is usually because they havent actually read the law / regulations.
A few are a few individuals who love enforcing rules (like a lot of the forummers community on here !)
A smaller subset right at the end is someone honestly trying to do something good for a good reason.

Get rid of the 95% which constitute the first 4 groups and all the "elfnsafety commonsense" myths tend to disappear.
But that doesn't make a good news story

 

[Sweep]

I do think that people don't believe they have to take responsibility for themselves anymore. Much of it down to the nanny state, I am sure. A strong H&S culture cannot be a bad thing, though I do think it sometimes goes too far. Those whose job it is to enforce can, I am sure, only see where an accident can happen, when in real life, the chances are actually often remote.
Risk assessments are a fine example. A RA form for an exhibition stand we completed recently had the following questions:
Will you have a water feature on your stand?
If so, what precautions are you taking against the spread of legionnaires disease?
Will cooking be taking place on your stand?
If so, will it be carried out by a celebrity chef?

 

[sev112]

I do think that people don't believe they have to take responsibility for themselves anymore. Much of it down to the nanny state, I am sure. A strong H&S culture cannot be a bad thing, though I do think it sometimes goes too far. Those whose job it is to enforce can, I am sure, only see where an accident can happen, when in real life, the chances are actually often remote.
Risk assessments are a fine example. A RA form for an exhibition stand we completed recently had the following questions:
Will you have a water feature on your stand?
If so, what precautions are you taking against the spread of legionnaires disease?
Will cooking be taking place on your stand?
If so, will it be carried out by a celebrity chef?

I guess that's because there Was a series of studies on the spread of legionella from the aerosol effect from indoor water features and from outdoor sprays in restaurants a few years back.
Nasty disease, legionnaires is.

Can't work out the celebrity chef risk though - do they throw knives ?

 

[ScienceBoy]

It's the same in most work places, the obsession with processes is killing innovation and the ability for employees to think for themselves and use their competence.

As a person who's career is based on process documentation and control as well as health and safety I can tell you they are doing it wrong if innovation is stifled.

The way I build quality management systems focuses on continual improvement after compliance. The biggest mistake a lot if companies make is they design "perfection" into version 1.0 then try and make everyone comply while resisting change.

The same goes for h&s, risk asses properly and you can always improve. The usual route us to just block off all risk with I flexible controls.

If all those behind the controls truly understood risk and risk management we would all be happier!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

As a person who's career is based on process documentation and control as well as health and safety I can tell you they are doing it wrong if innovation is stifled.

The way I build quality management systems focuses on continual improvement after compliance. The biggest mistake a lot if companies make is they design "perfection" into version 1.0 then try and make everyone comply while resisting change.

The same goes for h&s, risk asses properly and you can always improve. The usual route us to just block off all risk with I flexible controls.

If all those behind the controls truly understood risk and risk management we would all be happier!

Beyond common sense comment, quite clever really:lol:

 

[General Fade]

As someone who's career is based in H&S I couldnt agree more with ScienceBoy.

It truly is a lack of understanding of what is taking place and associated risk, generally by those that have been in the game 5 minutes with no background or experience in what they are dealing with.

This is also compounded by inexperienced H&S people thinking they know better than anyone else and confusing continual improvement with adding more inflexible controls.

Fade

 

[Blue in Munich]

Common Sense is not a gift, it's a punishment.

Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it!