Is 90k pay middle class

[bobmac]

So by this retired people who own their house and have a pension are all middle class?

Woo hoo
When I get my state pension next year I'll consider my self ''comfortable class''

 

[PNWokingham]

Class status a s a sociological concept is not really anything to do with money. Working class was more manual labour and unskilled/ non professionally educated - all trades, probably clerks and secretaries etc. Middle Class professional/ degree educated/ managerial including teachers, doctors, solicitors, accountants etc. Upper class is all about inherited titles/ nobility etc - and many of these people can be asset rich but income very poor. Income has nothing to do with any of this. I know pleanty of tradespeople who earn 6 figures but that does not make them Middle Class in the original way the terms were derived

 

[Springveldt]

@PJ87 I'm not mocking your post, I just like what you did. Particularly the last line. Very clever / funny

It’s like that joke Chris Rock once said “Shaq is rich. The white guy signing his check is wealthy.”

 

[Voyager EMH]

Social Class
A group of people within a society who possess the same socioeconomic status. Besides being important in social theory, the concept of class as a collection of individuals sharing similar economic circumstances has been widely used in censuses and in studies of social mobility.

Dividing by types of profession is a misconception.
To do so is to divide the working class into subdivisions.
This is unnecessary, since their shared characteristic of the need to work is far stronger than that which divides them from the two other classes which is ownership of wealth.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Even on just a state pension if you have paid off your house and live off the state pension the rest of your lift that's pretty decent no?

Altho they could also release value from their house and live off that aswell

The state pension is around 12000 a year, the reality for many is this is their only source of retirement income, and if you are in rented accommodation then you are stuffed.

 

[hambugerpete]

Upper class is alive and well, they tend to stick together.

 

[PJ87]

The state pension is around 12000 a year, the reality for many is this is their only source of retirement income, and if you are in rented accommodation then you are stuffed.

Very much so. If somebody has their housing paid for already (IE mortgage free) then gets a state pension then it's not too bad

However like you say if your renting life is tough

 

[harpo_72]

The state pension is around 12000 a year, the reality for many is this is their only source of retirement income, and if you are in rented accommodation then you are stuffed.

Well depends how you view it .. the state will look after you.
It’s hard not to be controversial here and upset everyone.. I have empathy, but I don’t like a free loader. We do have a number of people who physically cannot work but we have also a percentage who don’t work or contribute.
But maybe that 12000 a year is being given to someone who chose not to contribute..

 

[harpo_72]

Very much so. If somebody has their housing paid for already (IE mortgage free) then gets a state pension then it's not too bad

However like you say if your renting life is tough

Renting is a life choice.. lots of people choose to rent in areas they cannot afford but it offers them a benefit. So they are paying for the benefit.. say to them drop the car finance skip the monthly pointless outgoings and look at small properties in less expensive locations and they could buy and work their way up ..

 

[PJ87]

Renting is a life choice.. lots of people choose to rent in areas they cannot afford but it offers them a benefit. So they are paying for the benefit.. say to them drop the car finance skip the monthly pointless outgoings and look at small properties in less expensive locations and they could buy and work their way up ..

I'm afraid I strongly disagree here. My best friend her and her husband both earn 40k yet the cost of living plus rent they can't buy what they need by any means. Due to the rent they can't get a deposit together. They are trapped renting

It's not a choice they would much rather own

They own Their car outright and the majority of their wages go on the rent plus paying off an old debt from when her husband lost her job previously

 

[howbow88]

Renting is a life choice.. lots of people choose to rent in areas they cannot afford but it offers them a benefit. So they are paying for the benefit.. say to them drop the car finance skip the monthly pointless outgoings and look at small properties in less expensive locations and they could buy and work their way up ..

In the majority of cases, that simply isn't true at all. People in their thirties, forties, and even beyond are increasingly being caught in the 'rent trap'. My brother very much is in this bracket and I don't see how he will ever break out of it.

 

[PJ87]

In the majority of cases, that simply isn't true at all. People in their thirties, forties, and even beyond are increasingly being caught in the 'rent trap'. My brother very much is in this bracket and I don't see how he will ever break out of it.

Once in the rent trap it's VERY difficult to get out

It's why I made the choice to live at home with my parents until I was 27 to save save save to get onto the ladder rather than rent and not be able to save

Going back to my friend she didn't have that choice, she moved away for her husband's work they had to rent

 

[Voyager EMH]

Well depends how you view it .. the state will look after you.
It’s hard not to be controversial here and upset everyone.. I have empathy, but I don’t like a free loader. We do have a number of people who physically cannot work but we have also a percentage who don’t work or contribute.
But maybe that 12000 a year is being given to someone who chose not to contribute..

If you manage to find such a person, I would be really interested to know the full details of their awful life and their current pitiful existence.
It would also be interesting to know why they decided to choose this.

I met a few younger adults who could have been on this route when I worked in a prison.
Usual thing - grew up in care, suffered abuse etc. That start in life was not their choice.
Generally they needed help and guidance rather than scorn or derision.
Finding people willing to give up their time to do this was very difficult. Employing people with tax-payers' money to do this is even more difficult.

 

[howbow88]

If you manage to find such a person, I would be really interested to know the full details of their awful life and their current pitiful existence.
It would also be interesting to know why decided to choose this.

I met a few younger adults who could have been on this route when I worked in a prison.
Usual thing - grew up in care, suffered abuse etc. That start in life was not their choice.
Generally they needed help and guidance rather than scorn or derision.
Finding people willing to give up their time to do this was very difficult. Employing people with tax-payers' money to do this is even more difficult.

Out of interest, what did you do in prison?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Out of interest, what did you do in prison?

I was employed by a college of further education to give lessons in the use of microsoft office to the inmates for them to gain qualifications.
I was involved in other activities in general education regarding literacy, numeracy, social diversity awareness etc.

 

[harpo_72]

I'm afraid I strongly disagree here. My best friend her and her husband both earn 40k yet the cost of living plus rent they can't buy what they need by any means. Due to the rent they can't get a deposit together. They are trapped renting

It's not a choice they would much rather own

They own Their car outright and the majority of their wages go on the rent plus paying off an old debt from when her husband lost her job previously

Look carefully at them, why do they choose to live where they live ?
I got out of renting but it meant an hr commute by car and that was a 12 yr old car. After mortgage and all the extras I was left with £200 a month to live off .. no sky tv , no internet etc ..
If you want out, you get out .. you go without. I stashed money by not having permanent rental or rooms and used my travelling job to my advantage. My parents lived in the South nr Canterbury and I was working from an office in High Wycombe then Langley nr slough not cheap areas due to the London commute. So my first house was an apartment in Stone just outside of Aylesbury. When I got my pay rises and interest rates dropped I increased my mortgage payment so I reduced my time and increased my equity.. I knew I was not staying there forever and I was looking and changing job to contract out of Dunton knowing you got 25% more than Dagenham..
You may love a job but it has to support you .. that’s the primary function you have to live and that’s why I have turned jobs down and been told I am money grabbing but the counter is why do you have an office where it’s expensive?

 

[harpo_72]

If you manage to find such a person, I would be really interested to know the full details of their awful life and their current pitiful existence.
It would also be interesting to know why they decided to choose this.

I met a few younger adults who could have been on this route when I worked in a prison.
Usual thing - grew up in care, suffered abuse etc. That start in life was not their choice.
Generally they needed help and guidance rather than scorn or derision.
Finding people willing to give up their time to do this was very difficult. Employing people with tax-payers' money to do this is even more difficult.

There is no scorn or derision here, these people exist .. sadly. I appreciate opportunities are not freely handed out and it’s hard to recognise one. Perhaps more help is required but there are things that people can do but choose not to do.. I have chosen not to do them myself and I hope I don’t have to do them but life throws you bumps and curveballs .. if it needs to be done it will be done.

 

[PJ87]

Dne

Look carefully at them, why do they choose to live where they live ?
I got out of renting but it meant an hr commute by car and that was a 12 yr old car. After mortgage and all the extras I was left with £200 a month to live off .. no sky tv , no internet etc ..
If you want out, you get out .. you go without. I stashed money by not having permanent rental or rooms and used my travelling job to my advantage. My parents lived in the South nr Canterbury and I was working from an office in High Wycombe then Langley nr slough not cheap areas due to the London commute. So my first house was an apartment in Stone just outside of Aylesbury. When I got my pay rises and interest rates dropped I increased my mortgage payment so I reduced my time and increased my equity.. I knew I was not staying there forever and I was looking and changing job to contract out of Dunton knowing you got 25% more than Dagenham..
You may love a job but it has to support you .. that’s the primary function you have to live and that’s why I have turned jobs down and been told I am money grabbing but the counter is why do you have an office where it’s expensive?

They follow his work as at the time it was paying the most. She's worked her way up in the accounting world but all payrises have been swallowed up by energy costs

She pays more in rent outside of bath than I pay in mortgage in London (but I'm fixed on a low rate) and they don't have the capital to leave

They have a young child and childcare costs is almost as much for her as their rent. (She just started school so it dropped but it's still breakfast, after-school clubs etc whilst they have to work)

With all due respect getting out of the rental market back in the day is so different compared to people today .

They can't cut off the internet, half her job requires her to work from home, like I said struggles of today are completely different from days in the past where houses were affordable on one income.

'A losing battle': This is life for generation rent facing eternal tenancy

'It really shouldn't be that you have to have a big inheritance in order to have a basic level of housing security.'

metro.co.uk

 

[cliveb]

The rent trap is a society problem caused by rules limiting how much you're allowed to borrow as a mortgage.
It's scandalous that people who are considered not able to pay a mortgage of £X are deemed able to pay £X in rent to a landlord - in order to pay his buy-to-let mortgage!

 

[harpo_72]

Dne


They follow his work as at the time it was paying the most. She's worked her way up in the accounting world but all payrises have been swallowed up by energy costs

She pays more in rent outside of bath than I pay in mortgage in London (but I'm fixed on a low rate) and they don't have the capital to leave

They have a young child and childcare costs is almost as much for her as their rent. (She just started school so it dropped but it's still breakfast, after-school clubs etc whilst they have to work)

With all due respect getting out of the rental market back in the day is so different compared to people today .

They can't cut off the internet, half her job requires her to work from home, like I said struggles of today are completely different from days in the past where houses were affordable on one income.

'A losing battle': This is life for generation rent facing eternal tenancy

'It really shouldn't be that you have to have a big inheritance in order to have a basic level of housing security.'

metro.co.uk

I remember going for an accountancy job, notoriously poor pay. I qualified with an engineering degree and he wanted to pay me £7k on the basis he was going to take me through their qualifications. I binned him off for a £17k contract at Dagenham with a view to chopping that in to another role in 6 months and getting to £30k in 48months as a bare minimum.
We chose not to start our family till we were financially stable .. yes we are old parents but these are the choices we made.
As I said its choices .. compromise will participate throughout.