Independence Referendum For Scotland

[madandra]

Today is a day I will remember for the rest of my life.It signals the first step on our journey towards The Republic of Scotland.

I am going to apply for a job working at the passport control office at Gretna, checking English peoples passports as they enter my country.

I tip my hat to you champ2004 for keeping up your 100% strike rate of talking pish.

I for one will vote against th referendum.

Where are we gonna get the money to finish the effed up tram system in Edinburgh. Will every Scot get pumped out the British Army? Can we afford a Scottish Army, airforce, royal navy or coast guard based on a population of 5 million which has 20% of adults swinging the lead.

We will go tits up within 5 years.

 

[viscount17]

Will every Scot get pumped out the British Army? Can we afford a Scottish Army, airforce, royal navy or coast guard based on a population of 5 million which has 20% of adults swinging the lead.

never mind mad, there is one solution. as we've already tied up with the French (god help us, nelson must be spitting feathers!) and you can't do a Bonnie Prince Charlie (or was he Italian?) - you could sign a mutual defence treaty with the Faroes.

 

[Basher]

I for one will vote against th referendum.

Where are we gonna get the money to finish the effed up tram system in Edinburgh. Will every Scot get pumped out the British Army? Can we afford a Scottish Army, airforce, royal navy or coast guard based on a population of 5 million which has 20% of adults swinging the lead.

We will go tits up within 5 years.

Much sense spoken Mad.

Afraid you'd have to drop the name Royal from the navy though. No monarchy under the new Republic remember!

 

[matt611]

There may be a vote but I can't see the majority of scots wanting to split from the UK. Even if they did the logistics of it all would be a blooody nightmare.

 

[2004Champ]

Oh come on madandra that's a feeble argument.

There are already foreign nationals in the Brit army.I'm sure the ones already in would be able to remain.

And our new nation won't rely as heavily on armed forces, as we won't be America's bitch, poking our noses into other countries affairs around the world.We won't even need to illegally invade other countries for oil as we'll have our own.

 

[chris661]

I think I heard them last night on the BBC saying that independence would mean the income tax rising to at LEAST 50%.
Would the last person leaving switch of the lights...............

 

[thecraw]

It will be interesting to see how Scotland gets on without the handouts from the UK government, especially as all the oils gone ..... oh and the money given to prop-up RBS ......

Was that at the same time that Northern Rock, Halifax etc etc were all bailed out using the same tax money that I have paid to the British government?

It'll also be interesting to see how the government gets on without the taxation on Exports of Scottish Whisky, tourism, oil and gas exploration in Scottish waters etc.

However I'm against a single Scotland despite Alex Salmond honouring my pay rise last year.

 

[drawboy]

Mr Salmond will have to be watched closely by the Scots, he no doubt will do lot's of good for his own people but we are all far to tied to each other on this small island to make a split a success. He needs to tread carefully, I think he is using his clout at the moment to force the hand of Whitehall into giving him what he wants, independence will not happen as I do not think the Scottish have anything to really gain from it.

 

[Chrimbo]

It will be interesting to see how Scotland gets on without the handouts from the UK government, especially as all the oils gone ..... oh and the money given to prop-up RBS ......

Was that at the same time that Northern Rock, Halifax etc etc were all bailed out using the same tax money that I have paid to the British government?

That's the one ......

It'll also be interesting to see how the government gets on without the taxation on Exports of Scottish Whisky, tourism, oil and gas exploration in Scottish waters etc.

It will probably cancel out the money given to Scotland every year .....

However I'm against a single Scotland despite Alex Salmond honouring my pay rise last year.

Still even without independence you'll soon be at devolution phase II when the Scottish government gets tax raising powers .......

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Today is a day I will remember for the rest of my life.It signals the first step on our journey towards The Republic of Scotland.

I am going to apply for a job working at the passport control office at Gretna, checking English peoples passports as they enter my country.

I tip my hat to you champ2004 for keeping up your 100% strike rate of talking pish.

I for one will vote against th referendum.

Where are we gonna get the money to finish the effed up tram system in Edinburgh. Will every Scot get pumped out the British Army? Can we afford a Scottish Army, airforce, royal navy or coast guard based on a population of 5 million which has 20% of adults swinging the lead.

We will go tits up within 5 years.

Interesting question about the armed forces, no doubt the majority of enlisted Scots are proud to fight 'for queen and country'.I'd anticipate that Scotland would attempt to remove itself from the Security Council, allowing England to continue in that role alone.

Salmond will spend the next 3/4 years working on The Scotland Bill and gearing up for a referendum in 2014, 700 years after a wee' disagreement' with our southern cousins

Directional drilling will be the answer to Scotland independence dreams, my dad works in the oil industry and reckons there is at least 40 years worth of oil now reachable thanks to new technology.

I'd suggest that The SNP would swap the Barnett formula for North Sea Oil/Gas revenues tomorrow, so the argument that Scotland is subsidised by England is laughable (the additional 1/8 is small cheese in comparison)

An independent Scotland would not be burdened by huge costs such as replacing Trident,contributing towards bailing out Greece/Ireland/Portugal,costly wars in Afghanistan/Iraq.

With developing renewables like wind/tidal, a regulated financial sector with Standard Life/Scottish Widows/RBS,Engineering and techology like the stuff going on out at Rosslyn, Scotland could easily handle the financial aspect of being independent, just look east-bound over the North Sea to see how a country will access to Oil/Gas and removed from The EU can cope, then see how that country rates for wealth on a global scale.

I'd also hope that an independent country would gain self-esteem, too many Scots are lacking, maybe more pride in their new country could help improve attitudes to work/society.

Maybe pie-in-the sky, but there is only one way to find out.

 

[Iaing]

^^^^^^^excellent post.
Here's some figures:

The DTI estimated a couple of years ago that there were still 43.8 billion barrels of extractable oil in the North Sea. That is equivalent to around £3 trillion dollars at current oil prices of $80 a barrel. That's about £1,700 billion sterling worth of extractable oil. And this does not include revenues from North Sea gas. (Compare this potential wealth with the Scottish government's current £32 billion block grant from London to run the whole country.)

The idea that the London government are deceiving Scots about the quantity and value of North Sea oil is not news. A scandalous Westminster deception was confirmed in 2005 when official government papers from the early 1970s were finally declassified and released.

It was discovered that Westminster had pocketed £200 billion of North Sea Oil revenue over the last 30 years, equivalent to £170,000 for every man, woman, and child in Scotland. This factual amount was never projected, it was downplayed, hidden, and then lied about, for political expediency. Simply because London they knew that this vast wealth could have transformed Scotland into one of the richest countries in the world.

Report on the declassified papers

 

[haplesshacker]

I'm actually enjoying some of the reasoned debate on here. I was concerned it would turn into the usual Scots / English slagging match that appears. Keep it up.

Okay. Let's flip the coin on it's head. An English referendum on independence?

But the term 'independence' suggests a dependendancy. Which I guess is what the debate is really about. Who's dependant on who?

 

[drawboy]

Now that is a nice point hapless, What if we English decided to pull out of the union? I think there would be some jumping up and down from both sides of the Scottish/Welsh borders. I know you will all say "we can live without you and that is what we want" but, the boot may be on the other foot if you were forced to go it alone because we pulled out.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I'm actually enjoying some of the reasoned debate on here. I was concerned it would turn into the usual Scots / English slagging match that appears. Keep it up.

Okay. Let's flip the coin on it's head. An English referendum on independence?

But the term 'independence' suggests a dependendancy. Which I guess is what the debate is really about. Who's dependant on who?

Take The North Sea out of the equation and The Conservative Party would hold it tomorrow imo. Any UK-wide general election Labour consistently dominate the Scottish Seats.Remove that and I'd wager Tory govts for years to come.

Which begs the question why Cameron came out today and said he would fight any independence Scotland sought...why keep a leech attached to the body when it would be easily removed?There must be a motive....the motive is the £12 Billion annually received by the exchequer from Oil/Gas.

Also ask the question why the maritime border between Scotland and England was moved in 1999 from it's obvious place off the coast of Berwick upon Tweed, to off the coast of Carnoustie!Why would they do that?Whats the motive?Years and years of oil.Not that the move would stand up in any court.

Scotland and England will always be deeply attached to each other ( not just physically) my dad is English, so is one of my sisters, but now is the time to at least look at the facts and see what benefits Scotland and those who live here.

There are other industries Scotland can take advantage of...Rockstar North games and Dundee Uni are beginning to create an industry worth billions each year.
We're the leading country when it comes to genetics...dolly the sheep,anyone?

I'd love to hear facts from Scots on why they wouldn't want to independence, not nonsense like Salmond is a knobend or we'd be bust in 5 years, proper facts!

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Now that is a nice point hapless, What if we English decided to pull out of the union? I think there would be some jumping up and down from both sides of the Scottish/Welsh borders. I know you will all say "we can live without you and that is what we want" but, the boot may be on the other foot if you were forced to go it alone because we pulled out.

I'd suggest any Scot/Welsh who wanted to could move to England, pay their tax there and contribute to the English economy by being a consumer there.Because England would need every person available contributing without the taxes that Scotland contribute and the revenues from our mineral reserves in our waters.

Suggest it to your local MP

 

[sev112]

This one is quite a fun debate

Just to stir it up a bit...

What will the new Scottish /Scotch POlice force and the SNP do about the civil war that seems to break out every month between those 2 football teams of yours? One would like to think that the civilians of the new 21st Century independent republic not have to send letter bombs to people because they manage a different football team.

Now if you could solve that difficult little problem, that wuold be a success worth striving for, and i would watch out with interest.

(PS WHile we were talking about war mongers and interfering in other contries etc etc, i'll see if i can remember the name and natioanlity of the Foreign Secretary who made the famous declaration that moved a lot of (accepting they were rather discrmiinated against and deserving in many ways) people into someone's country in near the Red Sea )

 

[Adi2Dassler]

This one is quite a fun debate

Just to stir it up a bit...

What will the new Scottish /Scotch POlice force and the SNP do about the civil war that seems to break out every month between those 2 football teams of yours? One would like to think that the civilians of the new 21st Century independent republic not have to send letter bombs to people because they manage a different football team.

Now if you could solve that difficult little problem, that wuold be a success worth striving for, and i would watch out with interest.

(PS WHile we were talking about war mongers and interfering in other contries etc etc, i'll see if i can remember the name and natioanlity of the Foreign Secretary who made the famous declaration that moved a lot of (accepting they were rather discrmiinated against and deserving in many ways) people into someone's country in near the Red Sea )

Every country has it's bampots, July 7th 2005 bombings, 3 out of the 4 bombers who blew themselves up in London were from Leeds.

I'd also offer Her Majestys 11 to England and The Popes 11 to the RoI.Problem solved.

 

[sev112]

OK, but my (probably poor) attempt at political correctness probably hides an interesting point

Champ04 in this, and the other post, says quite strongly that he wants independence from us, that Scotland want this independence.

Well, who is "Scotland" - how many times can you splt Scotland up and find "us and them" groups - certainly my link to Rangers and Celtic suggests that there will always be groups and individuals who see things in different ways, and therefore think they shoudl all be split up to run their own affairs. So how do we split Glasgow up - who lives where, who pays taxes to who etc etc ?

We all come together and become bigger, for stability. By having larger societies tied together, we have multiple groups and everyone has to be grown up and live together for teh greater communal good.

So, believe it or not, i too dont mind that people are debating independence, and if that is the best thing for everyoen involved, then that's great. I'm not totally certain that it is however.

Keep teh debate up - i am actually learning quite a lot from this

 

[Adi2Dassler]

OK, but my (probably poor) attempt at political correctness probably hides an interesting point

Champ04 in this, and the other post, says quite strongly that he wants independence from us, that Scotland want this independence.

Well, who is "Scotland" - how many times can you splt Scotland up and find "us and them" groups - certainly my link to Rangers and Celtic suggests that there will always be groups and individuals who see things in different ways, and therefore think they shoudl all be split up to run their own affairs. So how do we split Glasgow up - who lives where, who pays taxes to who etc etc ?

We all come together and become bigger, for stability. By having larger societies tied together, we have multiple groups and everyone has to be grown up and live together for teh greater communal good.

So, believe it or not, i too dont mind that people are debating independence, and if that is the best thing for everyoen involved, then that's great. I'm not totally certain that it is however.

Keep teh debate up - i am actually learning quite a lot from this

'Scotland' by no means want's independence atm, that's what the next 3/4 years are going to be about...the debate within Scotland on the pro's and con's (because there will be both) for the nation and for The UK.

My tongue in cheek reference to Her Majesty/Pope II teams was just that.Within both supports you will find Nationalists and Unionists.Just because you support a particular team it doesn't mean you have to follow the recognised political leaning.I know proddy Celtic fans and Catholic Hertz fans.It's easy to gloss over how intricate Scotland is with politics/religion and say Celtic/Catholic Rangers/Proddy, but it's much more complicated than than and unique to each individual.As I mentioned previously, the Scottish electorate have shown they are a cultured political animal, knowing that voting for SNP in general elections is wasteful and equally Labour/LibDem in Holyrood is dumb.
All that said, there is no question that West Lothian/Ayrshire is infested with bigots and social retards, but I'm sure the same can be said for Yorkshire,Dorset or Merseyside.It's something each nation has to deal with, I'm sure we're capable, just like Yorkshire,Dorset and Merseyside are.

 

[2004Champ]

Today is a day I will remember for the rest of my life.It signals the first step on our journey towards The Republic of Scotland.

I am going to apply for a job working at the passport control office at Gretna, checking English peoples passports as they enter my country.

I tip my hat to you champ2004 for keeping up your 100% strike rate of talking pish.

I for one will vote against th referendum.

Where are we gonna get the money to finish the effed up tram system in Edinburgh. Will every Scot get pumped out the British Army? Can we afford a Scottish Army, airforce, royal navy or coast guard based on a population of 5 million which has 20% of adults swinging the lead.

We will go tits up within 5 years.

Interesting question about the armed forces, no doubt the majority of enlisted Scots are proud to fight 'for queen and country'.I'd anticipate that Scotland would attempt to remove itself from the Security Council, allowing England to continue in that role alone.

Salmond will spend the next 3/4 years working on The Scotland Bill and gearing up for a referendum in 2014, 700 years after a wee' disagreement' with our southern cousins

Directional drilling will be the answer to Scotland independence dreams, my dad works in the oil industry and reckons there is at least 40 years worth of oil now reachable thanks to new technology.

I'd suggest that The SNP would swap the Barnett formula for North Sea Oil/Gas revenues tomorrow, so the argument that Scotland is subsidised by England is laughable (the additional 1/8 is small cheese in comparison)

An independent Scotland would not be burdened by huge costs such as replacing Trident,contributing towards bailing out Greece/Ireland/Portugal,costly wars in Afghanistan/Iraq.

With developing renewables like wind/tidal, a regulated financial sector with Standard Life/Scottish Widows/RBS,Engineering and techology like the stuff going on out at Rosslyn, Scotland could easily handle the financial aspect of being independent, just look east-bound over the North Sea to see how a country will access to Oil/Gas and removed from The EU can cope, then see how that country rates for wealth on a global scale.

I'd also hope that an independent country would gain self-esteem, too many Scots are lacking, maybe more pride in their new country could help improve attitudes to work/society.

Maybe pie-in-the sky, but there is only one way to find out.

A fantastic post!