I now know why I play to 21 now.

[la_lucha]

I disagree. It's not really because you are missing greens and I think you are focusing on the wrong weakness in your game.

GIR is about birdie opportunities. For someone off 21 I can guarantee you'll be hitting on to the green with your 3rd shot most of the time (par 3's excluded). It is that shot you need to work on the most. If you are able to get that close enough that it's a easy tap in, a direct chip in or at most you end up with a 2 putt, your handicap will start to come down. Chipping on to the green and 2 putting put's you at a bogey player and off 18. Improving that shot to the point you start getting a few 1 putts and you're getting lower.

By all means focus on improving from 150 in and trying to hit the green, but from that distance you have a 90% margin of error on where you are aiming. Much better to be thinking about the 3rd shot that get's you on the green.

I disagree with that. I'd rather have two putts for par than two putts for bogey. Also given my dispertion I'd probably say I have a 66.6666% margin of error.

 

[la_lucha]

Go on then, Ill be slightly contrarian (just for a change lol)

(for me if i take too much club and swing at 80% invariably i dont make a full rotation, become disconnected and hit it with hands and/or arms and get a far worse result)

This is what I'm worried about. I think I'm hitting a full shot but missing, but worried to go up a club for fear of losing the swing on a 3/4 shot. I'll give it a practice with the 3/4 and see how I get on over 36 holes.

 

[Khamelion]

Oh just cause I was expecting some of the normal forum type of answers, can someone give me a sarcastic response just so thread doesn't feel so......weird and helpful.

Okay then, sarky comment.

In post #12 you mention a distance of 104yds, I assume that is your 64 degree lob wedge and only 104yds with that wedge, I mean really you said you were hitting them full on.

 

[Stuey01]

Miss all but 1 green and you're sticking 17 shots on every round, lets say putting average goes up and you can conservatively say your adding 10 shots per round.

Only if you never get up and down, and if that's the case then either your chipping or putting or both need work.

 

[la_lucha]

Only if you never get up and down, and if that's the case then either your chipping or putting or both need work.

I play off 21, every part of my game needs work

 

[Foxholer]

It takes a bit of practice, but soon becomes 2nd nature.

Start with only short swings - same turn, but only taking you arms back to horizontal (9 o'Clock). Club should be pointing just about vertical. Then, making sure everything about the downswing still happens - squeeze (the_coach's) sponge with the lead foot, right knee and hip, then torso and shoulders, then arms - just let the club drop and release and swing
through to at least arms pointing horizontal on the follow through - club should be higher.

Then increase the amount of turn and lift to 3/4 full swing, but apply the same sequencing and results - swing through to the equivalent on the other side - 3/4 finish.

The 9 to 3 swing is demonstrated here (I'm sure I've seen a better one but couldn't find it!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn2ZyA-6E8Y

And the 3/4 one is here - from 3:40 to 4:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYxsxEamMJE

No sound in either.

Both those swings should also give you a consistent distance that you can use for pitches with any number of clubs to confidently attack the pin from a variety of distances - a variation on Pelz's system.

 

[Stuey01]

I play off 21, every part of my game needs work

Ha! Fair enough mate. So does mine.

 

[la_lucha]

Okay then, sarky comment.

In post #12 you mention a distance of 104yds, I assume that is your 64 degree lob wedge and only 104yds with that wedge, I mean really you said you were hitting them full on.

Blah I didn't mention the Sandy in that post. Although I can hit that 607.56 yards exactly.

 

[Khamelion]

Okay then, sarky comment.

In post #12 you mention a distance of 104yds, I assume that is your 64 degree lob wedge and only 104yds with that wedge, I mean really you said you were hitting them full on.

Blah I didn't mention the Sandy in that post. Although I can hit that 607.56 yards exactly.

and there we go normal service has been resumed :whoo:

 

[Birchy]

Where do the approach shots tend to miss?

Are they going straight over the green? Left or right? Or are you mi******** a large percentage?

LOL cant put miss hitting in without it being starred out

 

[pbrown7582]

how about taking MPA and aiming for the back of the green ........

 

[la_lucha]

My Mis***** normally go left, unless I am consciously trying to correct, in which case they go right, but generally they go left. They usually have a lovely high draw.

 

[Jack_bfc]

My advice is : Buy new clubs, and a new bag, oh and new shoes...

That should do it

Seriously though as a fellow 20+hc I sympathise ... Although I did shoot 93 in last nights medal after the first two of the season being 102....!!!! I have been working on my up/down as I have a similar GIR percentage..
Sand saves and even chipped in with the 9 iron from just off the green last night.

The lofty heights of 3rd in the 3rd division.

 

[woody69]

I disagree with that. I'd rather have two putts for par than two putts for bogey. Also given my dispertion I'd probably say I have a 66.6666% margin of error.

Of course you would! We all would, but you have to be realistic. If you want your handicap to come down the first place you should be looking is your ability to scramble and that 3rd chip shot onto the green. If you improve to the point you're close enough for a single putt you're getting close to going around in level par aren't you?

What difference does it make if you hit an approach from 150 yards that hops onto the edge of the green (congrats, you made GIR) but you're still 20 yards from the pin and end up with a 3 putt, than one that ends up 5 yards off the green, you can chip up to 5 feet and role in off a single putt? That's where players with a high handicap need to focus, not thinking I've only hit 1 GIR today so my scoring is going to be poor.

Like I said, all areas should be improved and I can understand you wanting to think about hitting more greens, but I firmly believe your handicap will improve much quicker if you focus on the finese side of the game.

 

[la_lucha]

Of course you would! We all would, but you have to be realistic. If you want your handicap to come down the first place you should be looking is your ability to scramble and that 3rd chip shot onto the green. If you improve to the point you're close enough for a single putt you're getting close to going around in level par aren't you?

What difference does it make if you hit an approach from 150 yards that hops onto the edge of the green (congrats, you made GIR) but you're still 20 yards from the pin and end up with a 3 putt, than one that ends up 5 yards off the green, you can chip up to 5 feet and role in off a single putt? That's where players with a high handicap need to focus, not thinking I've only hit 1 GIR today so my scoring is going to be poor.

Like I said, all areas should be improved and I can understand you wanting to think about hitting more greens, but I firmly believe your handicap will improve much quicker if you focus on the finese side of the game.

Sorry but my handicap is 21 because I miss so many greens. Not because of poor chipping. If I am 20 foot away but on the green after chipping and my average is 1.9 putts per hole, why would this increase if I was 20 foot away after a 100 yard Iron in? One option gives you a long birdie chance, the other offers a potential tap in par and no better.

I'm not talking about stats here as much as seeing that the huge hole in my game is that I can't hit a green from 100 yards out in the middle of the fairway. From that position a reasonable level amateur golfer should hit the green, what 8 out of 10 times? I'm hitting the green 3 in 100 from that position. THAT IS MY PROBLEM NOT CHIPPING.

I recognise my problem.

 

[jp5]

I'd agree that GIR isn't necessarily the be all and end all, with a handicap of at least a shot per hole. So to play to handicap (a good round) you could use your extra shot getting to the green, two putt all of them and have 0% GIR.

Of course you should work on your GIR, but just as valuable if not more would be to work on your scrambling. Converting a few up and downs really tidies up a scorecard.

With practice if you can get to the point where your chip from off the green gets to a similar distance as the result of a long putt, then it won't matter if you hit the green or not. And you may find that taking the pressure off the need to hit a GIR actually sees you hit a few more.

 

[guest100718]

My regular PP plays off 21, Id say the main reason he is a 21 is he doesnt practise........

 

[Daviefow]

Interesting thread la_laucha, been a good read. I can see your point about your approach shot being your Achilles heal, but I can see woody69's point. I was in a similar position (21 hc) as you but concentrated on level 5's golf ie 18 over. Like woody said more often than not the approach was missing but dialing in the chip has got me down to an 18 and playing more like a 14 so far this season (been working every Sat this season so not played a medal yet).
PS your GIR numbers don't make sense as over 90 holes each hole is 1.1% so you cant have 3.7% unless you are not including par 3's?

 

[la_lucha]

Interesting thread la_laucha, been a good read. I can see your point about your approach shot being your Achilles heal, but I can see woody69's point. I was in a similar position (21 hc) as you but concentrated on level 5's golf ie 18 over. Like woody said more often than not the approach was missing but dialing in the chip has got me down to an 18 and playing more like a 14 so far this season (been working every Sat this season so not played a medal yet).
PS your GIR numbers don't make sense as over 90 holes each hole is 1.1% so you cant have 3.7% unless you are not including par 3's?

That's straight off hdid 89 holes actually not 90 my mistake.

 

[woody69]

Sorry but my handicap is 21 because I miss so many greens. Not because of poor chipping. If I am 20 foot away but on the green after chipping and my average is 1.9 putts per hole, why would this increase if I was 20 foot away after a 100 yard Iron in? One option gives you a long birdie chance, the other offers a potential tap in par and no better.

I'm not talking about stats here as much as seeing that the huge hole in my game is that I can't hit a green from 100 yards out in the middle of the fairway. From that position a reasonable level amateur golfer should hit the green, what 8 out of 10 times? I'm hitting the green 3 in 100 from that position. THAT IS MY PROBLEM NOT CHIPPING.

I recognise my problem.

Regarding your first point, the theory is if you improve your finesse game on your chip it won't leave you still 20 foot to go. You'll be much much closer and therefore more likely to 1 putt for your par or 2 at worst for your bogey. The likely hood of you being 20ft or worse from 100 yards is much more likely, that's just a fact.

In reference to your 2nd point, a reasonable level amateur golfer will not be hitting the green 8 out of 10 times. No where near. Looking at the PGA stats from 75 - 100 yards for GIR, only the top 109 pro golfers get near that statistic. The pro placed at the 200th best for GIR from 75 - 100 yards only hit them approx 60% of the time.