How should the UK government deal with IS?

[FairwayDodger]

Sorry but it's need to know for a reason. The public don't need to know and won't know anything bar what is released

It's the way it's been for decades and it won't change - thankfully 99% of the public trust the military to do what is right

Not even close - and this attitude is why.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not even close - and this attitude is why.

So you don't trust the soliders etc on the ground - remember don't confuse them with politicians

But if you don't trust our military then that's sad to hear and something I haven't witnessed greatly in my time in the military and I have not witnessed anything that isn't right

But you will never know everything that goes on in a conflict - things are kept classified for reasons and they are need to know. If you want to know then join

 

[SocketRocket]

I absolutely think we need to know exactly what our forces are doing in our name.

We don't need to see graphic pictures, I agree with that, but I am very wary of shadowy military figures deciding what the public does and doesn't get to know once any operational need for secrecy has passed.

Like.

 

[FairwayDodger]

So you don't trust the soliders etc on the ground - remember don't confuse them with politicians

But if you don't trust our military then that's sad to hear and something I haven't witnessed greatly in my time in the military and I have not witnessed anything that isn't right

But you will never know everything that goes on in a conflict - things are kept classified for reasons and they are need to know. If you want to know then join

Phil, it's all shades of grey. I've no doubt that the vast majority of our people over there are great people doing an extremely important job in hugely difficult situations. But when you and Adey start going on about the public not needing to know because we'd find it too upsetting I hear alarm bells ringing. Of course we need to know, we might not be there physically ourselves but our representatives are and we need to know what they are doing and what's happening to them - good and bad.

 

[garyinderry]

Phil this is just rubbish. 99% of people dō not trust the army.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, it's all shades of grey. I've no doubt that the vast majority of our people over there are great people doing an extremely important job in hugely difficult situations. But when you and Adey start going on about the public not needing to know because we'd find it too upsetting I hear alarm bells ringing. Of course we need to know, we might not be there physically ourselves but our representatives are and we need to know what they are doing and what's happening to them - good and bad.

The alarms bells ringing are a combination of adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5

Yes there are things that happen out in Afghan and Iraq that will be too upsetting to hear or see - there are currently thousands of trained soldiers having to deal with those sort of things via counselling due to Post Dramatic Stress -

If you really want to know the gory details then go ask them or even go and speak to and understand why the public doesnt need to know everything that goes on.

I have seen sights that you don't want to know about or see - why - because it disturbed and upset me so there is no way I would like my friends or family to know about them and they never will.

The public will not know everything , will not be shown every image and it will be to protect the public as opposed to people doing untoward stuff

But the suspicion is sad to hear

 

[garyinderry]

If you are talking about bodies sitting scattered around the place then yes we don't need all the gory details bit if its operations in our name that might not be approved of back home then we should know.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you are talking about bodies sitting scattered around the place then yes we don't need all the gory details bit if its operations in our name that might not be approved of back home then we should know.

Operations carried out are done with the correct authority via security councils

The public will not know about all those operations because they will be classified for various security reasons

Should our military ops need to say so of the public people ?! Is it now getting to the stage where people are getting that paranoid about everything now

If the military does something that embarrasses the country then it will be found out as with the Iraq tortue scandal

But operations get carried out for humanitarian , tactic and military reasons - that's happened now for hundreds of years

 

[SocketRocket]

The alarms bells ringing are a combination of adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5

Yes there are things that happen out in Afghan and Iraq that will be too upsetting to hear or see - there are currently thousands of trained soldiers having to deal with those sort of things via counselling due to Post Dramatic Stress -

If you really want to know the gory details then go ask them or even go and speak to and understand why the public doesnt need to know everything that goes on.

I have seen sights that you don't want to know about or see - why - because it disturbed and upset me so there is no way I would like my friends or family to know about them and they never will.

The public will not know everything , will not be shown every image and it will be to protect the public as opposed to people doing untoward stuff

But the suspicion is sad to hear

Phil. You are confusing the detail from the strategy. The General public should be fully aware of what operations are carried out a in their name, the detail of how this is achieved is not needed. The overall results are also important to share.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. At no point am I asking to see gory images or anything of the kind and that is not the sort of detail I am getting at, although I do think the public should know the real consequences of military action - both for the local population and our forces.

It's not suspicion either. We, the British people, are responsible for what our forces do but how can we feel any accountability if the "powers that be" decide not to inform us in case we get upset by what we hear?

 

[FairwayDodger]

If you are talking about bodies sitting scattered around the place then yes we don't need all the gory details bit if its operations in our name that might not be approved of back home then we should know.

Exactly!

Phil. You are confusing the detail from the strategy. The General public should be fully aware of what operations are carried out a in their name, the detail of how this is achieved is not needed. The overall results are also important to share.

Exactly!

 

[garyinderry]

26 people shot at a civil rights march in my home town would go quite some way in building some mistrust towards the British armed forces. Covered up for years.

My father was on his hands and knees crawling away as the bullets pinged over his head. If he had been caught by one of those I might not be here today.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil. You are confusing the detail from the strategy. The General public should be fully aware of what operations are carried out a in their name, the detail of how this is achieved is not needed. The overall results are also important to share.

No they shouldn't - they are deemed classified up to Top Secret for national security reasons and for future security reasons

Simple as that

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. At no point am I asking to see gory images or anything of the kind and that is not the sort of detail I am getting at, although I do think the public should know the real consequences of military action - both for the local population and our forces.

It's not suspicion either. We, the British people, are responsible for what our forces do but how can we feel any accountability if the "powers that be" decide not to inform us in case we get upset by what we hear?

Ok I firmly believe you have taken an innocent comment from both Adey and myself and are starting to think that the military are doing things that the public wouldn't approve off

Well I haven't ever seen abything of the sort of any operation that has been authorised via security councils around the world

The operations carried out have all been cleared - simple as that and the public will know what they will be allowed to know to protect both that operations success and any future successful operation

What I was talking about the British public being upset about isnt the actions of the British Military - it's the sights and actions of the people they are trying to stop.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

26 people shot at a civil rights march in my home town would go quite some way in building some mistrust towards the British armed forces. Covered up for years.

My father was on his hands and knees crawling away as the bullets pinged over his head. If he had been caught by one of those I might not be here today.

I'm going to take a guess you are talking about Bloody Sunday and the actions of the Para's ?

I'm also going to suggest that it's a very emotive subject that also effected my family over there as well and this is prob not the time and place to discuss it

 

[SocketRocket]

No they shouldn't - they are deemed classified up to Top Secret for national security reasons and for future security reasons

Simple as that

Its not as simple as anything. We all agree that there are some operations that need to be kept secret at the time of execution but this should only be to assist in their outcome by keeping information from the enemy.

The Military should always be controlled by Civilians who are accountable to the public for their decisions. I cant think of any case where the Public should not be informed of what is carried out on their behalf. If there is anything then maybe you could explain why this should be so.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Its not as simple as anything. We all agree that there are some operations that need to be kept secret at the time of execution but this should only be to assist in their outcome by keeping information from the enemy.

The Military should always be controlled by Civilians who are accountable to the public for their decisions. I cant think of any case where the Public should not be informed of what is carried out on their behalf. If there is anything then maybe you could explain why this should be so.

Then we will go round in circles

You will never be informed of the details of all operations because both military and civilian people will have deemed it classified and keeping those details will be for national security reasons and protecting people

 

[FairwayDodger]

Ok I firmly believe you have taken an innocent comment from both Adey and myself and are starting to think that the military are doing things that the public wouldn't approve off

Well I haven't ever seen abything of the sort of any operation that has been authorised via security councils around the world

The operations carried out have all been cleared - simple as that and the public will know what they will be allowed to know to protect both that operations success and any future successful operation

What I was talking about the British public being upset about isnt the actions of the British Military - it's the sights and actions of the people they are trying to stop.

I am purely concerned about the general principle that the public need to be kept as informed as possible and am not hinting at anything untoward going on.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I am purely concerned about the general principle that the public need to be kept as informed as possible and am not hinting at anything untoward going on.

And the public are kept informed where is deemed not to harm security

 

[FairwayDodger]

And the public are kept informed where is deemed not to harm security

Or, apparently, when it won't "upset" us.