How Equal?

[Foxholer]

Are there female seniors in those comps?

Nope. Don't think there are any competition oriented Senior Lady members.

 

[SocketRocket]

Why cant Lady members integrate themselves rather than continue to operate as a seperate entity of the club.
We have around 500 Male members and 80 Female, it often seems the other way round.

 

[Whee]

The ladies at our place seem to get a pretty fair deal - they play in the same monthly medal as the blokes, in their own division obviously, but they join in.

I don't think the club has done too bad in that respect, given that birds aren't allowed to drive in this country...

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Not aware of any restrictions at ours apart from what Homer has mentioned. The ladies seem to have a drawn comp some Tuesdays which always appears to have more entrants so maybe weekdays are better for many of them? Also, trying to arrange matches against lady members at weekends last year was a nightmare, I ended up playing one match at 4pm on a Sunday as that was the only time she could do.

As far as I can tell the ladies play and organise events when it is best suited to them, never hear anyone complaining.

 

[patricks148]

I believe the Ladies at my club get a better deal than the men.

There are two organised times a week, one morning and one afternoon and a weekend time booked just for ladies. These are one midweek morning and one afternoon from 5 in the summer and a Sunday morning.

They can book a time whenever thay like, the only restrictions are if there are Silver comps on or anything off the Blue tees, and thats also for men as you have to enter thses comps months in advance.

I think they pay less as well!!

 

[sona]

Not that I'm doubting but that's exactly what any male at my club would say and, on paper, that's true.

In practice it's not quite like that - maybe for practical reasons, maybe not.

What I'm asking is for you guys to consider how your club works in practice, are there any anomalies? Or do you believe the ladies get the same from the club you do? Or if they get better, say so too....

There's no difference in practice at the club, they have the same number of club comps but probably more away comps

 

[SocketRocket]

The ladies hold their competitions on a Tuesday morning and have always managed to manufacture some kind of comp every week so that they can continue with the Ladies day, even though it is not officially allowed any more. This year the Ladies have been made to reduce competitions to no more than the men hold. There is also a 'working ladies' slot on Saturdays that I find bizare, why not a working mans slot as there are no restrictions to ladies playing Saturdays.

In my opinion Ladies should drop this separatism and fully integrate into the clubs events. Why do they need separate competitions anyway, surely the handicap system (which is another anomaly) and the red tees should take care of strength issues. I would suggest that having a Ladies section is outdated and not in the true interests of equality.

 

[papyt]

at my club the ladies have their day on wednesday upto 1-30 after that men can play but have to give way if any ladies wish to play.As for women playing in the monthly medal or any mens comps. and i emphasise mens comps. no chance,women don't pay the same green fee as men at my club but they do get a fair deal as regards facilities and use of the course.If they were to play in a monthly medal against men and wished to classed as equal in my opinion they should play of the comp.tees and play to the men's stroke index and rules.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Thanks guys - some interesting comments. I'm genuinely surprised at how many of you think the ladies get a better deal than men at your clubs, not what I was expecting at all. Not looking for an argument so not delving any deeper!

Cheers! :cheers:

 

[rosecott]

If they were to play in a monthly medal against men and wished to classed as equal in my opinion they should play of the comp.tees and play to the men's stroke index and rules.

No reason why they shouldn't play off their own comp tees with their own stroke index and any addition/reduction of handicap according to any difference in SSS. What do you mean by men's rules?

 

[the_scrambler]

If we're now supposed to be operating under eu law, then any committee that is elected other than by the membership is illegal. To put it another away, if your ladies' captain and ctte have been elected only by the ladies' section, then I think you'll find there will be no provision for this to happen in your club's constitution. How can there be?

Gender-segregated fixture lists have proven to be disastrous for the development of women's golf at junior level. To drive home this point, where would the men's game be today had it been restricted to midweek access only?

 

[Mary]

Equal rights at our club, and same membership fees for men + ladies. We are lucky to have 4 loops of 9, so not usually any problems re. other people getting a game. Ladies day is Monday morning, with alternative comp days allocated for a Saturday or Sunday, when we have to book our own tee times. As a working lady I do feel rather excluded from the main Ladies section, just by not be able to play with main group very often. The Ladies Committee meetings are held on Monday afternoons, although the AGM is held in the evening.

The majority of our lady members are in their 50's or 60's, and I have wondered if we are losing out by scheduling most events to suit retired members and ladies who lunch?

 

[GB72]

My old club was certainly fine from an equality point of view. Ladies have the same rights as men to everything. Both men and women have an open comp at weekends and both male and female captains have their own day to raise money for the respective charities.

As with a few others, the womens section does have a few rights that the men do not enjoy. They have a morning reserved for them on the tee and they have times allocated for their competitions at weekends whereas mens comps are 'turn up, pay your fee and enter' as we have no booking system.

 

[beggsy]

Don't have any comps for ladies they run there own as they is only about ten of then and not one of them us under 55 and it can take them at least 5 hours to complete a round and they know they hold the men up an normally play same times so in nobody's way

 

[the_scrambler]

Equal rights at our club, and same membership fees for men + ladies. We are lucky to have 4 loops of 9, so not usually any problems re. other people getting a game. Ladies day is Monday morning, with alternative comp days allocated for a Saturday or Sunday, when we have to book our own tee times. As a working lady I do feel rather excluded from the main Ladies section, just by not be able to play with main group very often. The Ladies Committee meetings are held on Monday afternoons, although the AGM is held in the evening.

The majority of our lady members are in their 50's or 60's, and I have wondered if we are losing out by scheduling most events to suit retired members and ladies who lunch?

Hello Mary ... fancy meeting you here! (lol)

You are, of course, spot on. Twould be more accurate to describe 'the Ladies' Section' as the 'Ladies' SENIOR Section'.

 

[MadAdey]

My club has overcome the equality thing now by simply putting the green fees for ladies to the same as the men. Before they did have a ladies membership that restricted them from playing Saturday and Sunday morning but now they can play anytime they want. I think playing the equality card has bit some ladies on the ass as now they have had there green fees increased to give them unrestricted access to the course, even though they may not have wanted it.

But what my club has done to encourage ladies to take the game up is to make a new category. It is for partners of current male members. Your partner can join the club and the green fees are only going to be £250 a year with the £600 joining fee split over 5 years. They are entitled to this membership for up to 3 years or until they can play to an official handicap, which ever comes first. Restrictions are that they can only play during the week or on a Sunday afternoon. My girlfriend is going to do this as she has decided to start playing the wonderful game.

 

[SGC001]

My club has overcome the equality thing now by simply putting the green fees for ladies to the same as the men. Before they did have a ladies membership that restricted them from playing Saturday and Sunday morning but now they can play anytime they want. I think playing the equality card has bit some ladies on the ass as now they have had there green fees increased to give them unrestricted access to the course, even though they may not have wanted it.

But what my club has done to encourage ladies to take the game up is to make a new category. It is for partners of current male members. Your partner can join the club and the green fees are only going to be £250 a year with the £600 joining fee split over 5 years. They are entitled to this membership for up to 3 years or until they can play to an official handicap, which ever comes first. Restrictions are that they can only play during the week or on a Sunday afternoon. My girlfriend is going to do this as she has decided to start playing the wonderful game.

Can they do that? Should that (or is that) £250 ticket be available to male partners of female members as well?

I agree the legislation has had some potentially unfortunate side effects.

I think it was eu legislation as much as it was ladies playing an equality card, it was supposed to hit seniors this year (age discrimination) but the government decided it has no immediate plans for the introduction of this law atm. Which has affected clubs, particularly those who've already took steps to equalise the situation in readiness for the incoming legislation and are competing with those who hadn't.

I do wonder what will happen with handicaps as ladies can have 36 max in this country and men only 28. Should this have to change? Why the need for separate pots, if we have handicaps? That should take into account ability and address any strength issues (should seniors have forward tees on these grounds?) so maybe they should raise the handicap limit and let everyone play off white pots.

 

[the_scrambler]

MadAdey ... given the vast majority of female club members are in their 50's and 60's, I have no doubt they were quite happy with the status quo viz playing during the day on weekdays for a reduced subscription. Trouble is that unless clubs are now prepared to offer male members the same option then that club will now be in contravention of eu law. Given the vast majority of club members are male then I don't know of any club that could survive such a drop in subscription level even if it was only male seniors who opted for restricted m'ship.
Re your club's innovation to try and increase its female m'ship ... great idea but, not sure it's legal if it doesn't also apply to female members?

If clubs such as yours really want to make a longterm difference to increasing your female m'ship then why not encourage more girls to try golf. Grab a hold of the local primary school and make it the club's mission to link up with it. Now that all the old ways have (in theory) been swept away, there's never been a better time to change the golf club culture of females merely being tolerated. If you can get them young then the club's standard of women's golf will inevitably rise. Surely this is a better strategy?

Of course, in Scotland we have Clubgolf, which, thusfar has made absolutely no difference to raising the numbers of girls staying in golf. As I see it, the key to promoting the game to girls is to sell them an idea rather than promoting the game purely as a sport. Let's face it, most girls would happily ditch anything of a sporting nature at school. Point out all the advantages to learning the game whilst young. And, of course, it has to be remembered that golf is a non contact sport, ideal for girls when you think about it.

I was very lucky to have been given the opportunity to be introduced to golf when young. It allowed me to reach a standard which included the ability to reach greens in regulation, opening up opportunities to make birdies. The disadvantage to females taking up the game as adults is that, for most of them, they won't experience that level of ability and, therefore, whilst not inevitable, it's hard not to conclude the enjoyment factor will be diminished.

I should point out here that whilst males and females play the same game, how it is played is different. Due to the differences in clubhead speed, the comparative differential in loss of distance is greater for females than it is for males so, in one respect, it is even more important for females to learn the game when young as they are more likely to develop greater clubhead speed which, in turn, will allow them to reach greens in regulation thereby maximizing enjoyment and increasing their chances of longterm commitment to the game.
　



Are you still awake?(lol)


　
　

 

[Foxholer]

If they were to play in a monthly medal against men and wished to classed as equal in my opinion they should play of the comp.tees and play to the men's stroke index.​

You'd enjoy Luffness New then. Only 1 set of tees on comp days; only Whites and Tee of Day any other time.

 

[Matty]

There are no gender exclusive comps at my club, we're only small anyway so comps are open to all members, men, women and juniors.