One Planer
Global Moderator
Good or bad thing on a run of the mill full swing with any club?
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Hinging your wrists early in the backswing?
- Thread starter One Planer
- Start date
LanDog
Journeyman Pro
How early is early?
I hinge my wrists just after they past my hips
I hinge my wrists just after they past my hips
early isn't recommended as you lessen the width- and potential power/speed- of the swingGood or bad thing on a run of the mill full swing with any club?
upsidedown
Tour Winner
Bad I'd say, one of HiDs worst habits leads to very inconsistent strikes.
the_coach
Journeyman Pro
Ideally there is no active manipulation of the hands & wrists in the golf swing motion, from the start of motion, through impact to the finish.
Too often as the hands move from the get go, folks actively either initiate a wrist hinge straight away so 'pick' the club up into what will become an oversteep backswing with great risk of a 'tllt' & reverse pivot standing up out of posture with very little width it's all a good ways too narrow {instead of some natural width, a body pivot in posture & a shoulder turn} with all the miss-contact shots that then leads too
Or from the get go of motion folks will roll the hands & wrists over, right hand & forearm on top of left so taking the club back very sharply inside around the legs & flat which pretty much will ensure most will then throw any small angle that might just have been engaged & then on start back come a good ways out & over the top so ending up with a flip through impact, often into the much dreaded chicken wing finish with most of their weight still on the wrong trail side.
Either of these is a ways wrong for obvious but different reasons & both will cause numerous bad shots & a whole deal of anguish.
My take:
If, as you should, you can move your 'triangle' shape of your arms keeping the same 'Y' shape relationship with the club, keeping the convex angle of the left wrist that was there at address whilst retaining connection with your body/shoulder turn until the whole of this 'still hands' (no active manipulation) plus arms & club unit move 'intact' until just past the right (for RH) thigh, then you'll have made the best start to a swing motion that's possible.
At that hands just past the thigh, the right hand/wrist will begin to soften back & hinge, it will do this because the body is turning & while the radius of the left arm during this body pivot initiates this right hand/wrist 'hinge'.
As it all continues back a ways further, at around hip height or soon after & because the right arm will have to fold during the continuing body pivot, the folding right arm is the catalyst that makes the left hand/wrist 'cock' upwards so the left thumb sets upwards to the sky.
Where exactly after hip height this all happens depends largely on the golfers ability to co-ordinate width with the arms/hands/club whilst them still being 'connected' to the body turn. {Some like Davis Love can still 'connect' the turn with great width with the arms & club, so if it's wider like this the left wrist cocking upwards will occur much later in the backswing motion more at shoulder height.}
Comfortable natural width for most which provides an easier 'connection' with the turn, will mean the 'cocking upwards' of the left thumb/hand/wrist will happen at or soon after hip height.
It's the fact the the left hand/wrist & right hand/wrist perform two slightly different functions in the 'set' that enables the 90º angle between left arm & club shaft, the left wrist cocking upwards largely responsible for this, & the flat left wrist at top of the backswing which then has the leading edge of the club face perfectly parallel inline with the left arm, it's the fact that the right hand/wrist softens backwards & 'hinges' back on itself that largely controls the 'flat' left wrist angle & club face position at top of the swing.
These differing motions of the hands in the set then places all the 'angles' in the correct alignment relationship to return down & through impact with no compensatory movement needed, to provide the best consistent impact conditions.
(re 'flat' as ideal, though there's a range from slightly convex 'cupped' of slightly concave 'bowed' that will still allow good impact conditions with out compensatory movement in the downswing. But very cupped or very bowed left wrist positions will mean there will need to be a good deal of compensations made to get decent impact conditions, not impossible but just makes you much more reliant on timing + compensations to get those good impact conditions, complicates things makes consistency harder to achieve}
Too often as the hands move from the get go, folks actively either initiate a wrist hinge straight away so 'pick' the club up into what will become an oversteep backswing with great risk of a 'tllt' & reverse pivot standing up out of posture with very little width it's all a good ways too narrow {instead of some natural width, a body pivot in posture & a shoulder turn} with all the miss-contact shots that then leads too
Or from the get go of motion folks will roll the hands & wrists over, right hand & forearm on top of left so taking the club back very sharply inside around the legs & flat which pretty much will ensure most will then throw any small angle that might just have been engaged & then on start back come a good ways out & over the top so ending up with a flip through impact, often into the much dreaded chicken wing finish with most of their weight still on the wrong trail side.
Either of these is a ways wrong for obvious but different reasons & both will cause numerous bad shots & a whole deal of anguish.
My take:
If, as you should, you can move your 'triangle' shape of your arms keeping the same 'Y' shape relationship with the club, keeping the convex angle of the left wrist that was there at address whilst retaining connection with your body/shoulder turn until the whole of this 'still hands' (no active manipulation) plus arms & club unit move 'intact' until just past the right (for RH) thigh, then you'll have made the best start to a swing motion that's possible.
At that hands just past the thigh, the right hand/wrist will begin to soften back & hinge, it will do this because the body is turning & while the radius of the left arm during this body pivot initiates this right hand/wrist 'hinge'.
As it all continues back a ways further, at around hip height or soon after & because the right arm will have to fold during the continuing body pivot, the folding right arm is the catalyst that makes the left hand/wrist 'cock' upwards so the left thumb sets upwards to the sky.
Where exactly after hip height this all happens depends largely on the golfers ability to co-ordinate width with the arms/hands/club whilst them still being 'connected' to the body turn. {Some like Davis Love can still 'connect' the turn with great width with the arms & club, so if it's wider like this the left wrist cocking upwards will occur much later in the backswing motion more at shoulder height.}
Comfortable natural width for most which provides an easier 'connection' with the turn, will mean the 'cocking upwards' of the left thumb/hand/wrist will happen at or soon after hip height.
It's the fact the the left hand/wrist & right hand/wrist perform two slightly different functions in the 'set' that enables the 90º angle between left arm & club shaft, the left wrist cocking upwards largely responsible for this, & the flat left wrist at top of the backswing which then has the leading edge of the club face perfectly parallel inline with the left arm, it's the fact that the right hand/wrist softens backwards & 'hinges' back on itself that largely controls the 'flat' left wrist angle & club face position at top of the swing.
These differing motions of the hands in the set then places all the 'angles' in the correct alignment relationship to return down & through impact with no compensatory movement needed, to provide the best consistent impact conditions.
(re 'flat' as ideal, though there's a range from slightly convex 'cupped' of slightly concave 'bowed' that will still allow good impact conditions with out compensatory movement in the downswing. But very cupped or very bowed left wrist positions will mean there will need to be a good deal of compensations made to get decent impact conditions, not impossible but just makes you much more reliant on timing + compensations to get those good impact conditions, complicates things makes consistency harder to achieve}
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Was taught in the 70's when cocking the wrist was seen as crucial. Now teaching is much different but its something ingrained that I find impossible to change. Where and when it happens in my swing I couldn't say. I just know I do it still
it still is and is still taught, quite rightly, can you make a full swing without wrist cock? :mmm:
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Look at the one planers like Kuchar. Flat wrist position and no cupping or hingeing
the_coach
Journeyman Pro
Kuchar still has a 90º angle between left arm & club shaft, it's one plane but his left wrist still cocks upwards his right wrist still softens & hinges back to get his flat wrist at the top, but the 'set', angle & 'lag' is very much still there. His action though doesn't allow real speed through impact, so he's deal shorter. (for a tour pro}
Even Striker sets a little, just not so much as most do. As earlier in his career when he did set the wrists more with more angle he was a whole more inaccurate, he changed to get the accuracy back so now he relies more on his body turn & arm swing with less wrist set to provide club head speed, which is why for a top tour pro even at his height of playing real good from couple years back he didn't really send it out there, but he still a ways over 270. He just sets his left wrist a lot less but there's still a right wrist hinge back to get the leading edge & his left arm parallel aligned at top.
Thing that kills a lot of ams chances or real good impact is either a very early left wrist cock as soon as the hands move, or the dreaded roll over as soon as the hands move. From there to get anywhere near solid & sound impact positions from either the golfer then has to make a good bunch of compensations coming back to the ball, which is often complicated further by the swing path, swing direction through impact plus the AoA.
If you really cup the left wrist going back the club face will be a good ways open at top of swing (toe hanging down a good ways) then it takes a lot to get the face angle anywhere near square at impact, especially if the swing path is out to in with the club head going left in direction through impact.
Conversely if you really bow the left wrist at the top the face will be a good ways closed, face angle pointing up to the sky, at top, then it takes a real fast hip clearance & the body to keep rotating through (as DJ shows) if your going to stop the club face being a good ways shut through impact.
If you can take the time to get the club to the top with a fairly flat wrist {that doesn't mean a flat one plane swing, you can get this position from either a one or what is commonly referred to as a two plane, or just a more neutral plane in between the two} providing the grip is a sound neutral one a reasonable 'one piece-ish' takeaway that provides the 'flat-ish' left wrist so square club face alignment at top.
It then means you can just swing back down & get sound impact conditions without any extra manipulation of the club face, so you'll then also get optimum club head speed for your swing motion, any manipulation on the ways down will slow the club heads delivery through impact.
Even Striker sets a little, just not so much as most do. As earlier in his career when he did set the wrists more with more angle he was a whole more inaccurate, he changed to get the accuracy back so now he relies more on his body turn & arm swing with less wrist set to provide club head speed, which is why for a top tour pro even at his height of playing real good from couple years back he didn't really send it out there, but he still a ways over 270. He just sets his left wrist a lot less but there's still a right wrist hinge back to get the leading edge & his left arm parallel aligned at top.
Thing that kills a lot of ams chances or real good impact is either a very early left wrist cock as soon as the hands move, or the dreaded roll over as soon as the hands move. From there to get anywhere near solid & sound impact positions from either the golfer then has to make a good bunch of compensations coming back to the ball, which is often complicated further by the swing path, swing direction through impact plus the AoA.
If you really cup the left wrist going back the club face will be a good ways open at top of swing (toe hanging down a good ways) then it takes a lot to get the face angle anywhere near square at impact, especially if the swing path is out to in with the club head going left in direction through impact.
Conversely if you really bow the left wrist at the top the face will be a good ways closed, face angle pointing up to the sky, at top, then it takes a real fast hip clearance & the body to keep rotating through (as DJ shows) if your going to stop the club face being a good ways shut through impact.
If you can take the time to get the club to the top with a fairly flat wrist {that doesn't mean a flat one plane swing, you can get this position from either a one or what is commonly referred to as a two plane, or just a more neutral plane in between the two} providing the grip is a sound neutral one a reasonable 'one piece-ish' takeaway that provides the 'flat-ish' left wrist so square club face alignment at top.
It then means you can just swing back down & get sound impact conditions without any extra manipulation of the club face, so you'll then also get optimum club head speed for your swing motion, any manipulation on the ways down will slow the club heads delivery through impact.
hovis
Tour Winner
The hole point of a good take away is to get you into a good, repeatable and persistent position at the top. If you do this with early wrist hinge then so be it.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
:thup:
unfortunately few here seem to believe that from the posts on a range of associated subjects!
