jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
No. Nothing changes until you next submit a qualifying score. It is when you submit one that the new calculation will take place.
Handicap reductions when soft cap activated
- Thread starter DickInShorts
- Start date
No. Nothing changes until you next submit a qualifying score. It is when you submit one that the new calculation will take place.
rulie
Head Pro
Some educational info from the USGA -
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h...handicap-system/topics/soft-cap-hard-cap.html
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h...handicap-system/topics/soft-cap-hard-cap.html
DickInShorts
Newbie
Thanks for that - I presume the same applies in Scotland.
It would have been much better if they had used ‘movement’ instead of ‘increase’ in their description of how the cap works!
It was only the example in the detailed soft & hard caps page that clearly shows how it works.
Thanks to everybody for their input
rulie
Head Pro
I'm pretty certain that the soft cap does not apply to handicap index decreases, ie, it's only there to limit increases.
Colin L
Tour Winner
As is clear from Rule 5.8(1):
The soft cap is triggered when the difference between a player’s newly calculated Handicap Index and their Low Handicap Index is greater than 3.0 strokes.
The reference point is the Low Handicap Index and if a reduction is going to result in a new Handicap Index more than 3 strokes above it, the soft cap is applied.
As I understand it, if your newly calculated Handicap Index is going to be in the low cap "zone", the cap will be applied
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rulie
Head Pro
Colin, can you explain the bolded sentence? Do you mean a reduction in the Low Handicap Index or just a reduction in a new Handicap Index?
Swango1980
Well-known member
No, he means that if a player submits a low score that is in their top 8 (thus lowering the average of the 8 score differentials),but that average is STILL over 3 shots higher than the Low Index, then the soft cap is still applied on the resultant final Index.
DickInShorts
Newbie
Yes - the ‘raw’ index is calculated with the new 8/20 then the difference between that and the soft cap is halved.
This means the soft cap applies to all handicap movements whilst the soft cap up is active
Colin L
Tour Winner
That is indeed what I meant.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Indeed, as I've been saying throughout this thread
rulie
Head Pro
The stated purpose of the soft and hard caps is to slow rapid increases in handicap index. I don't understand why the caps should also slow the reduction in handicap index. Maybe someone can explain.
From the definitions in the Rules of handicapping...my emphasis
Cap
The procedure that reduces or limits the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can increase when measured against the player’s Low Handicap Index. There are two trigger points within the cap procedure:
From the definitions in the Rules of handicapping...my emphasis
Cap
The procedure that reduces or limits the amount by which a player’s Handicap Index can increase when measured against the player’s Low Handicap Index. There are two trigger points within the cap procedure:
- Soft cap – the point after which there is a reduction in the rate of upward movement of a Handicap Index.
- Hard cap – the point which sets the maximum limit for the upward movement of a Handicap Index.
Colin L
Tour Winner
The fixed point is the low handicap index. The soft cap is applied when a new Handicap Index would be more than 3 strokes above that point. But it is only a 50% modification of the increase and so your new index will be more than 3 strokes above your low handicap index. If your next score results in a reduction which would still leave you more than 3 strokes above, the soft cap will apply. Overall, you are still showing enough of an upward movement relative to the low handicap index to be soft capped even though the new index would be lower than the previous one. The relationship of the new and previous handicap indexes is irrelevant; it is the relationship between the new index and the low handicap index that matters. A player could up and down like a yo-yo within the soft cap zone, I suppose.
I don't think the wording of the rule is particularly helpful but that's how I understand it.
I don't think the wording of the rule is particularly helpful but that's how I understand it.
Swango1980
Well-known member
It appears the problem lies is in how people are interpreting "upward movement", in that they are assuming that it is related to the impact of one single score (I.e. the latest score).
This is not the case. As we are all aware, the Index is always related to the group of 8 best scores out of 20. So that relationship needs to be maintained, and then compared against any caps.
The "upward movement" is related to the current average best 8 score differentials, and how that average has increased compared to the lowest average in the past year (not a single score compared to the lowest average 8 score differentials in last year).
When Dick estimated the impact on his Index by taking the difference between the new score diff and the one it replaced, and divides by 8, that is absolutely fine as a rough and ready method for a player to anticipate the impact. However, that is only the case if the player is not over the cap limits, and it falls apart if that is not the case. Therefore, the player needs to remember the full method of how an Index is calculated (if they wish to do it in their head).
DickInShorts
Newbie
At the end of the day the wording in the literature is misleading.
“Increases” should be replaced by “movement” in relation to handicap adjustments whilst the cap is in place
“Increases” should be replaced by “movement” in relation to handicap adjustments whilst the cap is in place
wjemather
Well-known member
All this confusion and misunderstanding comes from taking one sentence out of context. When the rule is read in full, it's clear that the limit on increases, and no limit on decreases, is relative to (i.e. above/below) the low handicap index (not the current handicap index).
Simple maths shows why it works this way... reducing any faster (as some appear to be expecting/advocating), and the new handicap index would not then be the average of the best 8 of 20 differentials (subject to normal capping), and players with the same SD average would have different handicap indexes. And there is no mechanism that would normalise this over time.
Simple maths shows why it works this way... reducing any faster (as some appear to be expecting/advocating), and the new handicap index would not then be the average of the best 8 of 20 differentials (subject to normal capping), and players with the same SD average would have different handicap indexes. And there is no mechanism that would normalise this over time.
Swango1980
Well-known member
True. I guess some like to summarise one or two sentences into an even shorter sentence, and then get frustrated because they've not processed the full sentence in the first place
To be honest, I've no idea how many people would get confused by this. I can only speak for myself, but I always interpreted it the way it was meant to be interpreted, so I don't know if I am normal, or Dick's interpretation is normal. In fact, I imagine the normal reaction is absolutely nothing, with most golfers just relying on what the computer tells them. Most people I know can't even figure out the impact on their Index after they submit a new score with No Caps in place, so they won't start worrying if they are over the Cap limit.
So, I'm not sure the wording on the Scottish Golf website needs changed at all, as it makes sense to me. Could it be clearer? Not so sure. If movement was used, people might start wrongly interpreting it that your handicap cannot be cut by more than 3 shots as well as increase by 3 shots in a year, if they tried to summarise the wording. The whole point of the Caps is that it is related to upward movement of a players index in a year, so of course the words upward or increased are pretty important to mention in any description of caps.
Steve Wilkes
Well-known member
This thread has turned into a 'How do I get to a single figure handicap', If it's not in your make up, you will not get there, If you haven't got a head for maths your not going to get there.
God help us if it's more than 5 above the Low Index
God help us if it's more than 5 above the Low Index
Swango1980
Well-known member
I know, can you imagine.
A 10.0 index handicapper suddenly develops the shanks and putting yips (or any other crisis in form), and goes from being able to shoot scores in the high 70's / low 80's on a good day, to not being able to break 90. 6 months down the line, his 8 best score differentials are all +25.0, and handicap Index is 15.0 (due to the hard cap).
He then goes out and shoots a differential of +21.0, and says why is my handicap still 15.0, and not fallen by 0.5 ((25.0-21.0)/8) to 14.5!?
One method is to explain the maths as to how it works, and hope the penny drops. Although, maybe the more direct answer is "you're handicap is not 14.5 because not only are your 7 other scores shockingly worse than 14.5 to begin with, your recent best score is actually still worse than 15.0, let alone 14.5. Your "true" Index is 24.5, but the caps will not allow that.
I get it though, so I can't criticise the confusion. There are several aspects of the WHS that are more complicated than the old system, and so it was always going to cause more confusion to golfers who try and get their head around certain things compared to the pre WHS.
rulie
Head Pro
Let me pose an example and a question.
Suppose a player’s handicap index has increased into the soft cap range, and is 4.2 above his low handicap index. That player then has a good game and enters the score which lowers the average of his best 8 of 20 by 0.8. Does the soft cap restriction of 50% apply to this reduction, ie, would his new handicap index go down by 0.8 or 0.4?
(I thought that the soft cap only applied for increases in handicap index, not decreases)
Suppose a player’s handicap index has increased into the soft cap range, and is 4.2 above his low handicap index. That player then has a good game and enters the score which lowers the average of his best 8 of 20 by 0.8. Does the soft cap restriction of 50% apply to this reduction, ie, would his new handicap index go down by 0.8 or 0.4?
(I thought that the soft cap only applied for increases in handicap index, not decreases)
Swango1980
Well-known member
Yes, the soft cap applies. Not sure if you followed the previous comments?
It may well lower the average of the best 8 by 0.8. However, before that round, that average value was already at a reduced rate when setting the Index, due to the soft cap. After than round, the soft cap still applies.
The whole point of the soft cap is to stop unreasonably high increases in the INDEX compared to the lowest INDEX value in the last year. It is nothing to do with individual score differentials and what they may replace. It takes 8 score differentials to calculate the index, not one.