rulefan
Tour Winner
It's the difference between the USGA averaging and the CONGU ratchet methods.
Handicap conversion calculation USGA to CONGU
- Thread starter scubascuba3
- Start date
It's the difference between the USGA averaging and the CONGU ratchet methods.
scubascuba3
Assistant Pro
Is that the answer to a question?
rulefan
Tour Winner
It's a suggestion as to why a CONGU handicap might be lower than a USGA handicap if all rounds are played as CONGU qualifiers and the scores are returned to both systems.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
Has a decisin been made yet about how many rounds out of 20 will be used to calculate a playing handicap? I have heard both 10 and 8 being discussed.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Are you assuming that the USGA type system will be the only option or do you know?
scubascuba3
Assistant Pro
I bet 10 baht that it will be based on the USGA system. I imagine they are going through the process of proving the best option. The USGA is the most logical calculation. One thing though, you can't work out in your head how much your handicap will change after a competition unlike CONGU
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Clearly, from the agreed statement of principles, it's not the only option.
However, if Mike's indicating his expectation I agree with him!
Can't see it being anything else for a number of reasons.
Only issues for me are the basis for the calculation (how many from how many) and the definition of relevant scores to be included (I can see a little more restriction being applied here - there will be differences in the application; inevitable once the door was opened to their existence).
Which then leaves the thorny issue of whether to include a course conditions adjustment for any competition scores (Aus) or not (USGA). A lot less relevant in an averaging system than the current CONGU one but likely to be part of the system just so that it doesn't look like the wholesale adoption of the USGA!
However, time will tell so it's a non issue until something happens.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
No I don't know - hence the question.
I know from what I read that the desire is to have "global" system. Whilst the USGA system clearly works there are other viable alternatives (like the Aussie system) so I assumed there would be some compromise to come up with the best of the existing systems which we would then adopt.
If the desire is to implement this in January 2020 then things presumaby need to be decided quickly to allow systems to be changed and a major communcations exercise undertaken after the new rules are implemented in 2019.
If we add the implementation of the USGA Course Rating system into the mix then things are going to get busy and potentially confusing.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The USGA rating of men's courses in England is now well under way (2020 is the target) and is a necessary precursor to the WHS.
The rest of the world already use the system. It makes no difference to CONGU as the Course Rating simply becomes the SSS. It might be an inconvenience to some clubs where the CR is not the same as the CR. But it is a massive time and cost to the counties.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
I am now confused about how this will be implemented as I didn't believe the course rating system was a precursor.
Assuming a 2020 implementation, existing playing handicaps will still be valid I presume?
New rounds will then count towards the new system until the minimum number (8/10/?) have been played at which point a new handicap will be calculated? This will then continue going forward until 20 rounds have been playd when scores will start being dropped.
Presumably this could be done with or without the new course rating system?
I appreciate the amount of work involved here - I am helping with the assessments in the county and we are on track to finish this year but I understand several counties are struggling with this labour intensive exercise.
.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I would have thought that you cannot have the American system without course rating.
rulie
Head Pro
It will be the WHS (not the "American system") and each association will require implementation/transition plans. However, if rumours are close to true (caution), it will include the USGA course rating and slope rating system.
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cliveb
Head Pro
People on the handicap committee at my club tell me that our course was rated for slope a couple of years ago. (But we haven't yet been told what the slope ratings are - can't think of a good reason why not).
rulie
Head Pro
Perhaps those responsible for the system will be reviewing consistency between courses/areas/counties?
rulefan
Tour Winner
Virtually all golfing countries use the USGA Course rating system. Until two years ago the England Golf Union's men's courses were the exception. All other CONGU unions (including the English Women's Golf Association) used the USGA system. In 2012 the EGU & EWGA meged and a couple of years later a WHS was announced.
The EG system however only rates the course for scratch players. The USGA system also rates for the bogey (21ish) player. The two ratings provide the Slope Index (ie the relative difficulty of a specific set of tees for the low and high handicapper). All major handicap systems use the Slope Index as part of the handicapping formula.
The County Unions are now busy rating the England men's tees to the USGA requirement. The Slope Index can be calculated as a result of this process but neither it nor the Bogey Rating are being published yet ast they serve no purpose until all courses are rated and WHS is introduced.
The EG system however only rates the course for scratch players. The USGA system also rates for the bogey (21ish) player. The two ratings provide the Slope Index (ie the relative difficulty of a specific set of tees for the low and high handicapper). All major handicap systems use the Slope Index as part of the handicapping formula.
The County Unions are now busy rating the England men's tees to the USGA requirement. The Slope Index can be calculated as a result of this process but neither it nor the Bogey Rating are being published yet ast they serve no purpose until all courses are rated and WHS is introduced.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
We are rating our courses for scratch & bogey players - otherwise how can you calculate a slope?
Whilst not informing clubs of the slope we are informing clubs where the new calculated SSS differs from the existing one.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
And there are a number of ways to implement/transition....what will be will be!
For example, you could work back from the course ratings and existing CONGU handicap to establish a players equivilent handicap index and then populate whatever the number of average records with a set of that score. You could populate the average number or the whole history (it would make a difference going forward).
This is the simplest way to be up and running on a single date, and is also simple to explain and implement.
But there are others as already posted.
For example, you could work back from the course ratings and existing CONGU handicap to establish a players equivilent handicap index and then populate whatever the number of average records with a set of that score. You could populate the average number or the whole history (it would make a difference going forward).
This is the simplest way to be up and running on a single date, and is also simple to explain and implement.
But there are others as already posted.
rulefan
Tour Winner
1) That is of course a requirement of being able to implement the WHS. Regardless of whether it is a USGA, European Golf Association or Golf Australia based system. Or "pick 'n' choose" as was indicated at the outset.
2) That is a requirement of England Golf and CONGU. A new rating must be used as the SSS immediately it has been calculated and confirmed by Woodhall Spa
The current EGA system is a variation of CONGU but with slope. ie a competition based system.
The current GA is already a mix of USGA and EGA. ie primarily competition based but social scores are included and must be declared before play.
LincolnShep
Head Pro
I realise this is a slight diversion but does anyone know why it's called a "slope" index? Seems an odd name, where does it come from?
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Comes from the graphical representation of handicap players scores relative to course difficulty.
As the difficulty increases the scores increase even more steeply!
Allegedly
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