Hailstones on green

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cliveb

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At the weekend we had a sudden hailstorm. Within a couple of minutes the green on the hole we were playing was covered in a blanket of hail. We weren't sure about this, so decided to putt through the hail, which made putting "challenging", shall we say.

I know you're not allowed to brush frost away from the line of a putt, but can I just confirm whether hailstones are loose impediments and we could have brushed them away? (Treating them as casual water wouldn't have helped, as the entire green was covered).
 
isnt ice either a LI or casual water and the player can choose which.. I assume hail is ice..
 
Think that in the definitions, under loose impediments is states that "snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player."

So yes, you could have cleared them.
 
Interesting one - I was called up last year for, literally, making a clearing between my ball and the hole when caught in a hailstorm. Not in comp, just a friendly game. But they all said I wasn't allowed to do it, it's improving the line.

However, when it happened on Sunday it was so heavy & prolonged we just got it close and called it a gimme!!!

BjbEdBqIQAAfi41.jpg


Then as we walked to the 10th, we passed this...

BjbEonAIQAE9EjD.jpg
 
dufferman said:
However, when it happened on Sunday it was so heavy & prolonged we just got it close and called it a gimme!!!
Click to expand...
Considering what happened to my playing group, the ball would have needed to be within 3 inches to be classified as a gimme! (Not that gimmes were available - we were playing our monthly stableford).

One of my playing FCs left an 18 inch putt about 6 inches short - his ball finishing as a snowball. I was lucky to witness this, and managed to sink my 12 inch putt by hitting the ball about as hard as I'd normally strike a 6 footer.

(FYI - Your photos show a similar amount of hail to what we experienced - perhaps we had slightly more).
 
Nothing in rule 16 prohibits "improving the line." Rule 16-1a prohibits "touching" the line of putt except as noted. One of the allowed touchings is to remove loose impediments. So, if there is a ton of loose impediments (hail is a LI) in your line, you may remove them even if that improves your line. Caveat: no removal if that might influence the movement of a ball in motion. Rule 13-2 does prohibit improving the line of play by certain actions..removal of LIs is not one.
 
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atticusfinch said:
Nothing in rule 16 prohibits "improving the line." Rule 16-1a prohibits "touching" the line of putt except as noted. One of the allowed touchings is to remove loose impediments. So, if there is a ton of loose impediments (hail is a LI) in your line, you may remove them even if that improves your line. Caveat: no removal if that might influence the movement of a ball in motion. Rule 13-2 does prohibit improving the line of play by certain actions..removal of LIs is not one.
Click to expand...

I assume that clearing a perfect path just wider than a ball to guide the ball perfectly into the hole counts as "influence" !
 
We had the same freak weather and greens were totally white in minutes. I did wonder about the rule on touching the line so just hit the putt hard! The golfruleguruwhomustbeobeyed was in the clubhouse and quick to say "I hope you didn't move the hail from your line"!
 
As far as I'm aware you can treat the hail as LI and can brush them away with your hand only ( not club or towel etc )
 
AmandaJR said:
We had the same freak weather and greens were totally white in minutes. I did wonder about the rule on touching the line so just hit the putt hard! The golfruleguruwhomustbeobeyed was in the clubhouse and quick to say "I hope you didn't move the hail from your line"!
Click to expand...

Be careful that you do not breach 1-2.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
As far as I'm aware you can treat the hail as LI and can brush them away with your hand only ( not club or towel etc )
Click to expand...

rosecott said:
There's another myth.
Click to expand...

Liverpoolphil said:
Any particular part ?
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, someone came up to me last Friday and said exactly the same thing.

16-1a/8
Loose Impediments Removed from Line of Putt with Cap or Towel
Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible?
A. Yes, provided he did not press anything down.
 
23-1/1

Means by Which Loose Impediments May Be Removed

Q.Worm casts are loose impediments. By what means may such casts be removed?
A.Loose impediments may be removed by any means, except that, in removing loose impediments on the line of putt, the player must not press anything down (Rule 16-1a).

(Please note as an aside, this means heavy boulders that are loose impediments may be removed with a fork lift or fifty spectators,)
 
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rosecott said:
Funnily enough, someone came up to me last Friday and said exactly the same thing.

16-1a/8
Loose Impediments Removed from Line of Putt with Cap or Towel
Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible?
A. Yes, provided he did not press anything down.
Click to expand...

No worries cheers
 
AmandaJR said:
We had the same freak weather and greens were totally white in minutes. I did wonder about the rule on touching the line so just hit the putt hard! The golfruleguruwhomustbeobeyed was in the clubhouse and quick to say "I hope you didn't move the hail from your line"!
Click to expand...

hope you asked him to show you the rule he thought you would be breaking?
 
atticusfinch said:
... Caveat: no removal if that might influence the movement of a ball in motion......
Click to expand...

At first I couldn't think of what you had in mind with this caveat. And then I thought of the furious sweeping done on the curling rink to improve the smooth passage of the stone and pictured someone frantically sweeping hail away from in front of his ball as it skited its way towards the hole . :)
 
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