GUR Ruling

[2blue]

The GUR is a much disturbed, re-seeded area & very irregular to put over..... so.....
As parts of green, as well as fringe, are in the GUR are you entitled to expect relief to be on the green for both ball 1 & 2?
Also, in other scenarios here, where the ball is in GUR but on the part that is 'green's will the 'nearest point' always going be on the 'wrong side' of the GUR? Or would you be entitled to take relief that keeps you on the green, all be it not nearest point?
Folk are saying " Well if the GUR was fully on the green I'd be entitled to move to a place, 'not nearer the hole' that allowed a clear putt?"
Hope I've explained clearly enough

 

[KenL]

Where you move the ball to must not be nearer the hole. Not entitlement to move a ball onto the green.

What are A and B in your diagram meant to highlight?

Edit: that would be a stupid place for the GK to position a hole in this situation.

 

[jim8flog]

My simple question is how do you determine which part of the GUR is/was the green. Is this clearly defined within the GUR?

If the ball is on the green (part under GUR) then the player would be entitled to move to the nearest point of full relief if that point is on the green and not closer to the hole.

If the nearest point is off the green then hard luck. The same rule applies for casual water.

As an aside I am surprised that the green keeper has not made this a NPZ in GUR.

 

[2blue]

Where you move the ball to must not be nearer the hole. Not entitlement to move a ball onto the green.

What are A and B in your diagram meant to highlight?

Edit: that would be a stupid place for the GK to position a hole in this situation.

Ah.. yes.... it's the suggestion that since Ball-1 is on the green (part under GUR) then the player would be entitled to place at A on the green.
But since Ball-2 is not on the green (part under GUR) then nearest would be B.
I guess it's really a question of whether the options differ depending on whether, in GUR, you are on what is green or fringe & of course how clearly you can determine which is which.
Yes, I agree.... not a good place for the pin, though the situation is likely to be with us for some time.

 

[2blue]

My simple question is how do you determine which part of the GUR is/was the green. Is this clearly defined within the GUR?

If the ball is on the green (part under GUR) then the player would be entitled to move to the nearest point of full relief if that point is on the green and not closer to the hole.

If the nearest point is off the green then hard luck. The same rule applies for casual water.

As an aside I am surprised that the green keeper has not made this a NPZ in GUR.

So if not defined as NPZ could you choose to play from the GUR?

 

[KenL]

You can’t move ball 1 to B as B is nearer the hole.

 

[2blue]

You can’t move ball 1 to B as B is nearer the hole.

But OK if it was B+.... ie not nearer hole? I even if, then, A would have become the nearest point. Since Ball-1 is on the green (within GUR)

 

[Steven Rules]

The relief options depend on the position of the ball (i.e. whether it is on the putting green or in the general area), not which area of the course the GUR is located. From a Rules perspective, whether the GUR is on the putting green or in the general area or 50/50 is irrelevant.

If the ball is on the putting green, then PLACE the ball at the neaest point of complete relief, which may be either on the putting green or in the general area. (16.1d) By definition, the nearest point of complete relief is not nearer the hole than the original spot of the ball.

When the ball is on the putting green there is also free relief available if the GUR (or other abnormal course condition) interferes with the line of play. 16.1a(1)

16.1a, 16.1b and 16.1d plus accompanying diagrams explain it all.

 

[Steven Rules]

Addendum. For a ball in the general area the relief area must also be in the general area. 16.1b

 

[2blue]

The relief options depend on the position of the ball (i.e. whether it is on the putting green or in the general area), not which area of the course the GUR is located. From a Rules perspective, whether the GUR is on the putting green or in the general area or 50/50 is irrelevant.

If the ball is on the putting green, then PLACE the ball at the neaest point of complete relief, which may be either on the putting green or in the general area. (16.1f) By definition, the nearest point of complete relief is not nearer the hole than the original spot of the ball.

When the ball is on the putting green there is also free relief available if the GUR (or other abnormal course condition) interferes with the line of play. 16.1a(1)

16.1a, 16.1b and 16.1d plus accompanying diagrams explain it all.

So am I correct in thinking that the GUR is considered to be an 'Abnormal Course Condition'? So you could take relief or play it as it lies?
EDIT- Ah, yes... I think I have got this now & makes a lot of sense as I am understanding it.

 

[rulefan]

So am I correct in thinking that the GUR is considered to be an 'Abnormal Course Condition'? So you could take relief or play it as it lies?

Correct. Unless the the GUR (or part of it. eg the part on the green say) is deemed to be a NPZ.

 

[jim8flog]

So if not defined as NPZ could you choose to play from the GUR?

Yes (provided there is not a local rule prohibiting either)