Greensomes Conundrum

[apj0524]

Interesting one today in our mixed Winter Greensomes.

Par 5 Hole 15th, I tee off and pull my drive towards the rough on the LHS

My Playing partner proceeds to to the ladies tee that is 75 yds further up, proceeds to drive and makes an air shot ball is left on the tee.

Our opponents think that we declare my partners ball in ball I have to play it from the tee box but from the ground and I would be playing our third shot, I think I can pay off the tee as the ball is still on the tee and I would be playing two

So we decide to look for my ball and find it inside the three minutes and decide to play this ball and we are all unsure how the ball on the ladies tee should be played.

Rule 6.2 (5) and (6) apply but does not seem to fully cover a greensomes situation, advise?

Thanks

 

[Imurg]

I think you're right.....
But I'm prepared to be wrong

 

[williamalex1]

Did you say we're playing a provisional ?

 

[rulefan]

Our opponents think that we declare my partners ball in ball I have to play it from the tee box but from the ground and I would be playing our third shot, I think I can pay off the tee as the ball is still on the tee and I would be playing two

I'm in a rush but just to address this point first. If you are required to play a ball which is in the teeing area, you may play it from anywhere in the teeing area and you may place it on a tee or whatever at your choice.
See Interpretation 6.2b(6)/1

You would be playing your side's second if you did.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Winter Greensomes.
Sounds cool.
I don't know for sure what it is but I like the sound of it.

Our snow is mostly gone for now, but sadly, we're pretty sure that more is coming.

Winter Whitesomes doesn't sound like much fun at all.

 

[rulefan]

It a bit like foursomes except that both players tee off and then choose which partner's ball to continue with.

 

[williamalex1]

Winter Greensomes.
Sounds cool.
I don't know for sure what it is but I like the sound of it.

Our snow is mostly gone for now, but sadly, we're pretty sure that more is coming.

Winter Whitesomes doesn't sound like much fun at all.

Yellowsomes are worse , your opponents chose who's ball you have to play.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did you say we're playing a provisional ?

sorry bit confused by the situation as described.

With greensomes you both tee off and choose the ball you wish to play for your second shot. So you could have decided straight off that you‘d play your partners off the tee playing two, or you could have left that ball on the tee and gone to try and find your ball for your partner to play. You could both walk to try and find your ball and if after 3mins you haven’t found it or decide that it’s too difficult or whatever for you partner to play - or maybe more beneficial for you to walk back to your partners ball on the tee then you could choose to do that - playing it as it sat on the tee or placing it on the turf of the tee ground. But I am only guessing. I can’t see that there is any time limit associated with playing your partners ball as it isn’t lost. You just haven’t decided to play it. May well be totally wrong though.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

It a bit like foursomes except that both players tee off and then choose which partner's ball to continue with.

Got it.
We've got that format too, although I haven't played it in so long that I've forgotten what we call it..

We also have "scrambles" where the whole foursome picks the best ball on each shot and plays against the other foursomes in the field.
If you put too much stock in my jokes about cheating, you wouldn't feel very comfortable with this format!

 

[williamalex1]

sorry bit confused by the situation as described.

With greensomes you both tee off and choose the ball you wish to play for your second shot. So you could have decided straight off that you‘d play your partners off the tee playing two, or you could have left that ball on the tee and gone to try and find your ball for your partner to play. You could both walk to try and find your ball and if after 3mins you haven’t found it or decide that it’s too difficult or whatever for you partner to play - or maybe more beneficial for you to walk back to your partners ball on the tee then you could choose to do that - playing it as it sat on the tee or placing it on the turf of the tee ground. But I am only guessing. I can’t see that there is any time limit associated with playing your partners ball as it isn’t lost. You just haven’t decided to play it. May well be totally wrong though.

I would've thought that once you play from your partners tee that would be the ball in play, unless you say this is a provisional.
The rules guys will clarify

 

[rulefan]

Got it.
We've got that format too, although I haven't played it in so long that I've forgotten what we call it..

A mixed greensome is often referred to as a gruesome. Especially if a husband is paired with his wife

We also have "scrambles" where the whole foursome picks the best ball on each shot and plays against the other foursomes in the field.
If you put too much stock in my jokes about cheating, you wouldn't feel very comfortable with this format!

We do play scrambles. One form we call Texas is all tee off and all play the 'best' ball next. etc ...
The other we call Florida is where pyer's shot tha was chosen doesn't play the subsequent shot.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

We do play scrambles. One form we call Texas is all tee off and all play the 'best' ball next. etc ...
The other we call Florida is where pyer's shot tha was chosen doesn't play the subsequent shot.

That second format sounds like fun, too. Somebody added to my original post that part about being paired with one's wife--but it does make perfect sense.

 

[backwoodsman]

I fear there is some poor wording in the descripion of events by the OP - but I'd have thought there's no difficulty at all. Situation seems to be...

Partner A plays his ball from mens tee: this ball now lies down the course, somewhere in the rough. Partner B plays their stroke at a ball on the ladies tee: stroke misses ball and this ball is still sitting on its tee.

In greensomes you now get to choose which ball to continue with for your second stroke. So you can choose either to continue by hacking ball A out of the rough, or to play ball B. If you choose ball B then you can play it in accordance with rule 6.2(6) - ie as it lies, or move it elsewhere in the teeing ground, putting it on a tee or on the ground as you choose.

Why the opponents think you'd have to put it on the ground, and that you'd be playing 3 is anybody's guess??

 

[apj0524]

Did you say we're playing a provisional ?

No because we decided to look for my ball before we decided to say which ball to play next

 

[apj0524]

I fear there is some poor wording in the descripion of events by the OP - but I'd have thought there's no difficulty at all. Situation seems to be...

Partner A plays his ball from mens tee: this ball now lies down the course, somewhere in the rough. Partner B plays their stroke at a ball on the ladies tee: stroke misses ball and this ball is still sitting on its tee.

In greensomes you now get to choose which ball to continue with for your second stroke. So you can choose either to continue by hacking ball A out of the rough, or to play ball B. If you choose ball B then you can play it in accordance with rule 6.2(6) - ie as it lies, or move it elsewhere in the teeing ground, putting it on a tee or on the ground as you choose.

Why the opponents think you'd have to put it on the ground, and that you'd be playing 3 is anybody's guess??

Sorry about the confusion but your description is exactly the scenario, the question being debated, because we were all unsure is:

1) If the team decide to play player Bs ball can it be played as it lies from the Tee peg or does it have to be played from the ground as it is the next shot - from what has been said it can be played from the Tee Peg. Our opponents thought it should be played from the ground because the ball was in play, like it was on a course and you can not tee it up on the course for your 2nd shot

2) In playing player B's ball is player playing the teams 2nd or 3rd shot - again from what has been advised it would be our 2nd shot which makes sense.

 

[rulefan]

1) The full explanation re playing from the teeing area is in this Interpretation

6.2b(6)/1 – Any time a player’s ball is inside the teeing area, the player may move the ball to another spot within the teeing area, and may play it from a tee without penalty.

For example, a player makes his or her first stroke from the teeing area, barely making contact with the ball, and the ball either comes to rest on the ground within the teeing area or remains on the tee.

Since the ball is in the teeing area, the player may play the ball as it lies or, even though the ball is in play, may move the ball to any other spot within the teeing area and play from there without penalty. The player may also place the ball on a tee or adjust the height of the tee the ball is resting on.

2) In a greensomes the pair has the choice of which ball to play. As your ball was found within 3 minutes you may play either. There is no penalty applicable to playing one or the other.

 

[williamalex1]

No because we decided to look for my ball before we decided to say which ball to play next[/QUOTE

I thought it would be possible for you to play your partners ball from the ladies tee calling it a provisional, in case your original ball wasn't found.

 

[backwoodsman]

I thought it would be possible for you to play your partners ball from the ladies tee calling it a provisional, in case your original ball wasn't found.

I suspect you can't do that.

If "Partner A's" ball might be lost, then I presume a provisional played in respect of that ball has to be played from from the same place as where Partner A originally played the shot. I also presume that it is Partner B who has to play it? (But will happily stand corrected on either)

In greensomes, I guess that if tee shot A could be lost, you can play a "provisional ball A" but also the normal "original ball B" - and then get to choose whether you continue with "provisional A" - playing 4, or "original B" - playing 2

 

[williamalex1]

1) The full explanation re playing from the teeing area is in this Interpretation

6.2b(6)/1 – Any time a player’s ball is inside the teeing area, the player may move the ball to another spot within the teeing area, and may play it from a tee without penalty.

For example, a player makes his or her first stroke from the teeing area, barely making contact with the ball, and the ball either comes to rest on the ground within the teeing area or remains on the tee.

Since the ball is in the teeing area, the player may play the ball as it lies or, even though the ball is in play, may move the ball to any other spot within the teeing area and play from there without penalty. The player may also place the ball on a tee or adjust the height of the tee the ball is resting on.

2) In a greensomes the pair has the choice of which ball to play. As your ball was found within 3 minutes you may play either. There is no penalty applicable to playing one or the other.

I suspect you can't do that.

If "Partner A's" ball might be lost, then I presume a provisional played in respect of that ball has to be played from from the same place as where Partner A originally played the shot. I also presume that it is Partner B who has to play it? (But will happily stand corrected on either)

In greensomes, I guess that if tee shot A could be lost, you can play a "provisional ball A" but also the normal "original ball B" - and then get to choose whether you continue with "provisional A" - playing 4, or "original B" - playing 2

I think you're correct, but an interesting situation.

 

[Colin L]

Yes, if a provisional ball is to be played for A's teeshot, it is played by B. In a mixed tee greensome, the provisional must be played from the tee from which the original was played.

To save time, our terms of competition for greensomes allow a provisional to be played only if both teeshots might be lost or out of bounds.
The side may choose which partner plays the provisional. If that provisional might be lost or out of bounds, a further provisional may be played by the other partner and so on.
If both originals are found in bounds, the side may choose which it continues with as normal; if only one ball is found in bounds, that is the ball in play and must be continued with; if neither original is found in bounds, the provisional is played by the other partner to the one who put it into play.

We have a similar term of competition for scrambles to avoid the possibility of a side playing 4 provisionals.