Golf has lost the Plot!

[thecraw]

I am staggered to read that the cost of a round of golf on Wentworths West course is now a mind blowing £285 a round, not even a day but a bloomin round!

That set me off on a hunt and I see that Turnberry are now wanting £210 for a non-resident round on the Ailsa course and a mind bending £140 for the dump that is the Kintyre course.

Royal Troon £165
Royal St Georges £140 (seems cheap now!)
Prestwick £120 for a round
Sunningdale £190

Do golf courses expect Joe public to pay these prices, or do they and I'm being naive? I certainly could never justify that sort of outlay for a single round of golf nor would I want to pay that sort of sum out. Even if money was no object I would still object to that sort of outlay for 18 holes of golf.

Considering you can play fantastic "hidden gems" such as Silloth, Machrie, Boat of Garten even, Spey Valley for a fraction of the price I cant see how these clubs can market themselves at that price and expect visitors.

Given the current economic and financial climate I think golf has to take a good hard look at itself and wake up.

Discuss.

 

[CrapHacker]

I'm guessing that those prices are going to be mainly aimed at the corporate market.

Damned rediculous to expect an individual to pay them.

But I'd also assume that the guys that know are maximising their profit at those rates.

A fool and his money......., and all that.

 

[bobmac]

The same thing happens all over the world.
It's the club's way of saying "We dont want you playing on our course"

Can you imagine if Wentworth was £40 a round, the place would be packed every day and the members who pay a minimumm of £5,560 for membership wouldn't get near the place.

 

[algar5]

Courses such as those listed are now businesses first and golf courses second where the intention is to make as much money as possible from whoever pays the extortionate green fee. They are not bothered about the "ordinary golfer" but look to cater for the foreign tourist and corporate client who are more than willing to pay these prices.

The Italian couple who I spoke about in a previous post, who came across to Scotland last summer for 7 days of golf, paid out a total of over £2000 in green fees and stated that they had already booked for next year. They did not see this amount of money as unreasonable.

So despite the financial climate at the moment such clubs can afford to keep their fees high knowing that there will always be golfers willing to pay.

I guess that we should be glad that there are still so many hidden gems available at reasoable prices.

 

[Tiger]

It's linked to their marketing strategy. Effectively they are saying "We are an exclusive golf course, only the best players and the wealthy play here. Occasionally, when we are quiet we will have a 'coupon' day so joe public can have a go. Although, with all these big corporates paying over the odds to entertain their clients we may not need so many."

 

[birdieman]

Exclusivity is what its about as Bobmac says. If they can charge that and find people willing to pay it, which they can, then that's their business. Doesn't seem fair to us normal golfers but that's life.

£100 is about the max I think I'd be prepared to pay for a game and that would be a one off, the most to date I've spent is £85 at Royal Dornoch and something similar at Kingsbarns (Scottish resident rate).

I think, as Craw says, Spey Valley is a great deal at £50 a round.

 

[Macster]

Exactly as Bobmac says.

I have clients who think nothing of spending £10 - £30,000 on a Holiday, flying Business or First Class, and staying in 5* Hotels, with no Meals included.
If they wanted to play Wentworth, and it cost them £285, they wouldnt blink.

Its a different world, and one that most of us mere mortals can only aspire to.

Much as I'd love to play it, I certainly dont blame them for pricing it as they do, if they can justify it. Seems like they can.
Similarly, my own Club is 'expensive' at £50 Green Fee for a non-member @ weekends. Do I mind ? No, of course I dont, I dont want it busy when I might want to play.

 

[SharkAttack]

That set me off on a hunt and I see that Turnberry are now wanting £210 for a non-resident round on the Ailsa course and a mind bending £140 for the dump that is the Kintyre course.

I agree with what you say but a lot of these courses want you to stay and play. For instance you can get two nights dinner bed and breakfast and a round on The Ailsa and The Kintyre for £351 PP, which is the price quoted for just two rounds. 5* hotel, 5* food & 5* course it is beyond me except on a very special occasion and my little millstone would still say no unless her two rounds were in the spa.

 

[Bunkers]

Recently went for a walk down on the Ayrshire coastal path and walked along and through the Ailsa course at Turnberry. From what we saw in the middle of winter, the course is in fantastic condition and truely beautiful. More green staff than players! If they want to charge silly money for the privilege then so be it. It is a buisness first and if they are making money then good luck to them.

This forum would be the first to criticise the management if the Club/Hotel etc went into administration, or worse, let the quality of the course slip to that of a muni...

 

[Imurg]

It is a shame as I'm sure many would want to play these top quality courses - some of which host big Pro events. But they are businesses and are there to make money for the shareholders. You would have thought, with the recession, that there wouldn't be as much corporate cash floating about but that's obviously not the case.

There are so many courses on my "to play" list that are way out of reach except for a real special occasion. To be honest, paying £50 for a round of golf is a fair bit of cash for me so £285 - nearly £16 a hole?

But you can get on some of these places cheaper - not all but some. I played Forest of Arden last spring with CVG and we paid £35 each - normal green fee £90+ just by looking and booking online.
But there are loads of "lesser" courses that are a fraction of the price that may actually be more fun. Can't imagine the 17th at Wentworth is much fun in a howling gale with no run on the ball.

 

[Parmo]

I don't mind them charging excessive prices as I won't be playing them, what I do mind is the fact Spanish courses charging daft money for courses that are half decent. My mind boggles at what they want for membership fees aswell.

This forum would be the first to criticise the management if the Club/Hotel etc went into administration, or worse, let the quality of the course slip to that of a muni...

I've played some muni's that are far better quality than private courses yet you pay half the price.

 

[mikepops]

I played the Twenty Ten Ryder Cup course at Celtic Manor in November for £90 (with a meal included).

It was a stunning course, and naturally when the Ryder Cup comes around I will be very happy I played (and intolerable - "I parred that hole!" etc). However, they have just released their 2010 green fees, which peak in September at £195. I can understand they want to cash in on the course hosting the RC, but surely the true value comes after the competition, once all those great players have played there?

To me it just seems like blatant profiteering to take advantage of all the wealthy Americans who will be coming over before the competition.

Presumably 2011 will see £200+ green fees. Shame.

 

[David_L]

They are businesses and to keep the courses to the standard we, Phil, Lee et al expect to see for Championship matches costs a lot of money. As someone has said look at the amount of staff at Turnberry and compare that to your own clubs; I expect the ratio is somewhat different. Yes mere mortals cannot afford to play those courses but to a certain extent isn't that exactly what makes them so special in teh first place? We all need to dream.

 

[SeveB]

I would imagine there is a demand to pay those prices otherwise they would lower them, these clubs have to sell there name an product just like any one else , so normal business rules apply.

 

[CliveW]

Are these prices not for "High Season"? Turnberry is £110 in the close season and perfectly good to play then. I have obtained deals for most of the top Scottish courses by booking in advance and being flexible as to when I play them.

 

[DMC]

We dont have to play these courses,we are lucky enough to be able to pick from hundreds of good,testing and reasonably priced courses. Leave these overly priced ones to the tourists and corporate golfers,play the hidden gems.

 

[drawboy]

Golfers go to the likes of Wentworth, the Belfry and the famous Scottish/Irish/Welsh courses to play top quality golf in stunning surroundings. They quite rightly expect the course to be in immaculate condition. This costs a lot of money in staff and materials. The only way these costs can be offset is with the cost of green fee's. Members at these courses already pay a substantial premium to enjoy these benefits and although out of the reach of many membership wise, ordinary golfers can play these courses.They shouldn't be looked at a place for a quick knock, they are a treat to be savored and enjoyed to the max when you get the chance to play.

 

[RGDave]

Do golf courses expect Joe public to pay these prices, or do they and I'm being naive? I certainly could never justify that sort of outlay for a single round of golf nor would I want to pay that sort of sum out. Even if money was no object I would still object to that sort of outlay for 18 holes of golf.
Discuss.

I don't think these courses are expecting Joe Public to pay these green fees. I think they are looking for corporate business clients and really well-off players who will also then spend another small fortune in the restaurant.

Do I think it's a shame? Yes, I do. The trouble is some of these courses (Wentworth for example) would be overrun with visitors to the detriment of members and the course itself.

I guess, as Market forces dictate, they will either swim or sink and, as some courses have found out, it is very possible to out price yourself to almost financial ruin.

Think of Collingtree and (somewhat closer to my original home) Wildwood. Wildwood was hailed as one of the finest inland courses to be built in the 1990s. They took debentures off new members and talked about the green fees being £100+ from the early days. I don't know what happened to the whole venture (and the investments of the early members) but I do know that "even" a lot if Surrey middle-class (minted!!) couldn't be bothered to take a day out there when there are 50 courses within an hours drive that certainly weren't £100.

I notice from the web-site, you can now play it for £32 mid-week, which might well be a super-bargain if the course ever reached it's potential.

I've always advocated courses offering a very limited no. of tee times (early/late in the day) to genuine 4-balls from recognised clubs to allow ordinary folk to play. In the past I've even phoned secretaries to try and swing a deal, but it's a hopeless task.

I once phoned some of the top clubs in Birmingham to ask if our 4-ball that had won the regional NAPGC event http://www.napgc.org.uk/ could play at their course, at a time of their choosing for a modest green fee.

Our team had a 1/4/7/9 h'cap player in it, none of us had any money and we wanted to go and celebrate with a bounce game somewhere good. I gave up in the end.

Sadly, business is business. The fact that some (not these) courses are fairly empty most of the day, won't persuade the clubs to offer any special deals to bona fide golfers. If I was the financial controller (secretary) of a private club, I take a few 4-balls on for reduced fees and put the money into something useful for the members. 2 or 3 x 4-balls paying £100-160 per tee time is better than an empty course.

 

[thecraw]

I am not grudging these clubs charging that sort of money, as has been pointed out its their business. What I cant get my head round is that people are willing to pay these greenfees.

The company I am employed by has had funding majorly slashed, which includes cleaners getting binned and cleaning reduced. Overtime is totally out of the window and even fuel bills on cars are being looked into, we are constantly being reminded to use the cheapest garage for fuel prices etc. I know from other friends that they are mainly in the same boat some of whom have had corporate memberships to golf courses and gyms canceled, reduced working hours, again no overtime.

Golf must surely feel the knock on from this.

I am the same, £100 is the very max that I would be willing to pay to play golf and even at that it would have to be special and something that I desperately want to play.

I just think that a reality check is required.

 

[Imurg]

Some are willing to pay the fees because they "have " to play the courses that the Pros use - Wentworth/Turnberry etc etc. Personally I look for value - Belfry PGA/Forest of Arden for £35 and the like. When I get my million pound bonuses coming through then I might look elsewhere.

I think that for every 2 or 3 companies struggling there is one that's flying. Some havn't taken a hit at all. There is money out there in the corporate world and that's proven by the pricing.
As for Joe Public - paying 200+ quid for a round of golf is madness but if you've got it and that's how you want to spend it....