Golf ball damage.

[drdel]

Got one of our cars hit by a golf ball while parked up across a public road from the golf course. No big deal but the course closed for good a while ago. Several golfers are taking the opportunity to play for free as the course is still intact and not fenced off.

I wrote to the agents but they reckon because the golfers were trespassers they have no responsibility for any damage they may cause.

Anyone know better?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I imagine you may pursue a claim in the small claims court providing the authorities could get an arrest for trespass or criminal damage. I can't see there will be any insurance cover so if the worse happened and someone got hit by a stray ball and seriously injured then I think there will be a hefty claim coming their way

 

[chrisd]

I imagine you may pursue a claim in the small claims court providing the authorities could get an arrest for trespass or criminal damage. I can't see there will be any insurance cover so if the worse happened and someone got hit by a stray ball and seriously injured then I think there will be a hefty claim coming their way

As such, trespass is not a criminal offence so an arrest for it is unlikely, criminal damage is another matter

 

[Canary_Yellow]

As such, trespass is not a criminal offence so an arrest for it is unlikely, criminal damage is another matter

Would it meet the threshold of criminal damage? In any case, unlikely the plod would take any interest in it, in the same way they don’t care about car park dings and dents.

Unfortunately for the OP, it’s going to be one of those where you claim on your own insurance for it or you pay yourself for it to be fixed

 

[jim8flog]

Single car dent around £150 to repair depending on how it it can be push/pulled out.

Cost of going to small claims court about £75. Pay their expenses if you lose.

Claim on you insurance pay the excess and a have a claim against your no claims bonus ( I cannot see an insurance chasing it up other than a single letter which will get the same reply). If you have legal expenses insurance the may pursue it further.

 

[chellie]

Was it a council owned pitch and putt course? https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/t...ible-form-of-practice-during-lockdown.107207/

 

[Dibby]

Got one of our cars hit by a golf ball while parked up across a public road from the golf course. No big deal but the course closed for good a while ago. Several golfers are taking the opportunity to play for free as the course is still intact and not fenced off.

I wrote to the agents but they reckon because the golfers were trespassers they have no responsibility for any damage they may cause.

Anyone know better?

The question here is what did the agents\current owners do to stop trespass. If the trespassers scaled a 10ft fence to get access, its a different matter to if no action has been taken to prevent trespass. If you flip the situation around it's a bit easier to relate - that is if someone trespassed on the golf course and somehow got injured, the course owners would be liable if they hadn't taken appropriate actions to mitigate the risk.

I would look down this route, that is what the current course owners\agents have done to minimise such an incident occurring rather than try and go after the actual golfer themselves.

 

[Old Skier]

If they are members of a golf club (not this one obviously) they have automatic 3rd party liability cover through EG. Does mean you have to track them down.

 

[doublebogey7]

If they are members of a golf club (not this one obviously) they have automatic 3rd party liability cover through EG. Does mean you have to track them down.

Not so sure EG's insurer would pay out when the course was closed.

 

[Old Skier]

Not so sure EG's insurer would pay out when the course was closed.

It’s a long shot but as is the case if it happened on an open course, the claim is against the golfer not the club.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Had similar a couple of months back. A nice golf ball sized dent just above the passenger door punched into the car whilst parked in the club carpark. Spoke to the club about it, but because no one went in and owned up to it, can't claim on the club insurance, can only claim through my own insurance, which I'm not going to bother doing.

 

[Old Skier]

Had similar a couple of months back. A nice golf ball sized dent just above the passenger door punched into the car whilst parked in the club carpark. Spoke to the club about it, but because no one went in and owned up to it, can't claim on the club insurance, can only claim through my own insurance, which I'm not going to bother doing.

What's up with people, don't they realise that they are covered by EG.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Had similar a couple of months back. A nice golf ball sized dent just above the passenger door punched into the car whilst parked in the club carpark. Spoke to the club about it, but because no one went in and owned up to it, can't claim on the club insurance, can only claim through my own insurance, which I'm not going to bother doing.

Thats annoying. I get why you wouldn't bother via insurance but seeing that dent every day would really wind me up to the point where I'd have to get it done, whether I claim or take the hit

 

[Sats]

Would it meet the threshold of criminal damage? In any case, unlikely the plod would take any interest in it, in the same way they don’t care about car park dings and dents.

Unfortunately for the OP, it’s going to be one of those where you claim on your own insurance for it or you pay yourself for it to be fixed

Doubt that it would meet Criminal damage, unless there was good evidence that the damage was intentional or that the damage was reckless. A good brief could argue that their client simply hit a bad shot while practicing - which could be argued occurs a lot on a golf course. That Crime report would be closed unless there were reasonable lines of enquiry. And car park dings aren't matters for the police that would be a civil matter.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Doubt that it would meet Criminal damage, unless there was good evidence that the damage was intentional or that the damage was reckless. A good brief could argue that their client simply hit a bad shot while practicing - which could be argued occurs a lot on a golf course. That Crime report would be closed unless there were reasonable lines of enquiry. And car park dings aren't matters for the police that would be a civil matter.

Why are car park dings any different if the guilty party drives away without leaving details?

Do you mean the damage is a civil matter? I still think it’s a reasonable comparison, the police aren’t going to care realistically.

 

[Dibby]

Doubt that it would meet Criminal damage, unless there was good evidence that the damage was intentional or that the damage was reckless. A good brief could argue that their client simply hit a bad shot while practicing - which could be argued occurs a lot on a golf course. That Crime report would be closed unless there were reasonable lines of enquiry. And car park dings aren't matters for the police that would be a civil matter.

This misses the key point that if the golf course is closed, it's technically not a golf course, just a piece of land. So the likely best route to pursue is the negligence of the landowners not taking the necessary steps to avoid incidents like this. Without knowing what the landowners have and haven't done to prevent such occurences it's hard to say what the outcome may be.

 

[drdel]

The question here is what did the agents\current owners do to stop trespass. If the trespassers scaled a 10ft fence to get access, its a different matter to if no action has been taken to prevent trespass. If you flip the situation around it's a bit easier to relate - that is if someone trespassed on the golf course and somehow got injured, the course owners would be liable if they hadn't taken appropriate actions to mitigate the risk.

I would look down this route, that is what the current course owners\agents have done to minimise such an incident occurring rather than try and go after the actual golfer themselves.

In this instance the cost is pretty minor so not the main issue.

The Club held a tenancy which expired and it ceased business. The course has wide open access and is intact with Tees, bunkers and greens, no fencing etc. Numerous people now park on the adjacent road any walk dogs etc wandering across the land with no hindrance.

Agents act for the owners and they have declared that since the damage was caused by trespassers so there is no liability on them, the owners. It is this bit that seems wrong to me.

 

[drdel]

This misses the key point that if the golf course is closed, it's technically not a golf course, just a piece of land. So the likely best route to pursue is the negligence of the landowners not taking the necessary steps to avoid incidents like this. Without knowing what the landowners have and haven't done to prevent such occurences it's hard to say what the outcome may be.

That's pretty much what I'd thought, but I'm no legal beagle.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

That's pretty much what I'd thought, but I'm no legal beagle.

That's almost certainly right, but is it worth pursuing beyond just sending a letter? Small claims court, although designed to be straightforward to use, still comes with a degree of hassle and even then, it doesn't sound like a scenario where the answer is necessarily completely clear cut, so you might feel the need to involve a lawyer say. If the land is viewed as just a piece of land, it's strikes me that the landowner is less likely to be found to have been negligent in preventing damage to your car from someone playing golf than if it is a golf course. What precedent would that set for playing fields / fields more generally? What obligation is any landowner under to prevent damage to someone elses property from someone playing golf without permission on their land? In general terms, you'd think probably not a lot.

If the damage to the car is minor, all of that sounds to me like more hassle than it's worth. Of course if the damage is expensive to deal with then it might be worthwhile.

 

[Dibby]

In this instance the cost is pretty minor so not the main issue.

The Club held a tenancy which expired and it ceased business. The course has wide open access and is intact with Tees, bunkers and greens, no fencing etc. Numerous people now park on the adjacent road any walk dogs etc wandering across the land with no hindrance.

Agents act for the owners and they have declared that since the damage was caused by trespassers so there is no liability on them, the owners. It is this bit that seems wrong to me.

They're just trying to fob you off. Step one ask for that in writing, so you have a record of it.

Landowners have a duty of care, even to trespassers. So for example if someone trespasses on land containing a pond, falls in the pond and drowns, the landowner may be liable for compensation, however if the land was walled, and the pond had barriers and warning signs that it was deep water, the landowner may be judged to have taken reasonable precautions, despite the incident occurring.
Hence in this case, depending what the landowners have done to stop the (fairly obvious in my opinion) risk of people using a former golf course to hit golf balls, and the risks those golf balls pose to third parties, they may have liability.