GI Driver vs non-GI drivers

[rksquire]

I know they're aimed at people of varying skill sets, those who need a bit of help either with launch or flight shape or forgiveness, but in the circumstance where someone has been playing with a GI driver and finding the sweet spot, and is thinking of upgrading what actual difference could they expect?

For example, swinging at the same speed and finding the centre, would the Fly Z+ go further than the Fly Z (just an example, the same applies to all brands)? Is it as simple as the extra settings if played with properly will give you extra difference?

I've played very well with a GI driver (Cobra S3 Max) but am thinking of a change - mainly because the flight is high and I'm getting minimal roll so wanted to look at something that may be low spin. In my simple thinking, I see the Fly Z have a similar flight to what I have now (assisting me in getting the ball 'up'; and the Fly Z+ being of less help but maybe adding yardage in the roll?

 

[Hosel Fade]

I know they're aimed at people of varying skill sets, those who need a bit of help either with launch or flight shape or forgiveness, but in the circumstance where someone has been playing with a GI driver and finding the sweet spot, and is thinking of upgrading what actual difference could they expect?

For example, swinging at the same speed and finding the centre, would the Fly Z+ go further than the Fly Z (just an example, the same applies to all brands)? Is it as simple as the extra settings if played with properly will give you extra difference?

I've played very well with a GI driver (Cobra S3 Max) but am thinking of a change - mainly because the flight is high and I'm getting minimal roll so wanted to look at som<script id="gpt-impl-0.11443336601382603" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_92.js"></script>ething that may be low spin. In my simple thinking, I see the Fly Z have a similar flight to what I have now (assisting me in getting the ball 'up'; and the Fly Z+ being of less help but maybe adding yardage in the roll?

If it gets your launch and spin closer to the ideal ranges relative to ball speed then yes, not quite so simple as non-GI drivers are longer.

More a case of naturally faster players often generate more spin and therefore a low spin driver will bring them closer to the ideal.

Just try a few on a monitor and compare them to your current driver

 

[duncan mackie]

Whilst I am not of the view that non GI (whatever that means) are inherently longer when both are hit from the center etc, it is definitely the case that whatever is designed into a club to make it GI is likely to impact on an individuals launch parameters and it's not a case of simply substituting heads with the same basic parameters for a valid comparison.

If you have a consistent swing then there's no substitute for a fitting - but understand the output data clearly! 190 +60 only beats 220 +20 when the landing conditions are as programmed (should be obvious but it's amazing how easy it is for people to get confused).

Short story from last week, regular partner won an M2 at a Seniors team event a couple of weeks ago, currently uses a cobra something. He's about 5' 6" and 70. Out of the wrapper he wasn't gaining anything but once the pro started tweaking the club's basic settings, and I suspect his swing a touch too, he was gaining 25 on the best ones. On the course subsequently this was extremely evident. No shaft changes just loft and weighting.

It's less about the club and more about the right one for you - and then theirs shafts as well.

 

[Snelly]

I know they're aimed at people of varying skill sets, those who need a bit of help either with launch or flight shape or forgiveness, but in the circumstance where someone has been playing with a GI driver and finding the sweet spot, and is thinking of upgrading what actual difference could they expect?

For example, swinging at the same speed and finding the centre, would the Fly Z+ go further than the Fly Z (just an example, the same applies to all brands)? Is it as simple as the extra settings if played with properly will give you extra difference?

I've played very well with a GI driver (Cobra S3 Max) but am thinking of a change - mainly because the flight is high and I'm getting minimal roll so wanted to look at something that may be low spin. In my simple thinking, I see the Fly Z have a similar flight to what I have now (assisting me in getting the ball 'up'; and the Fly Z+ being of less help but maybe adding yardage in the roll?

You sound like a club manufacturer's dream customer.

Ignore the marketing. Don't read any club tests. Just find a trackman at a golf shop and pick up as many drivers that you like the look of. Hit a few balls with each and narrow the field. Hit a few more with each then buy the one that goes the furthest and in the right direction most often.

This is what I did last time I bought a driver and it has worked very well. I have no idea if it is GI, high spin, low launch, minimal roll or anything else. I just know it was the best one in the shop for me based on actually hitting golf shots so I bought it. Turned out to be the cheapest of the ten I tried and I would've never considered a Cobra driver had I walked in to the shop and taken a different approach.

My mate manages the shop in question and his only advice was to ensure I bought the exact one that I had been hitting as one shaft can differ from another, even if the label says it is the same.

 

[Hobbit]

If only it was so simple.

There are a number of stats that give you the best outcome but the type of driver that gives you that could be almost anything.

I've got a Taylormade SLDR. Allegedly the hardest, most unforgiving driver out there. It replaced a more forgiving driver that was lousy for me. I've since put a very forgiving driver in my bag, only for it to come back out and the SLDR to go back in.

Find a decent independent fitter who will let you try a number of options.

 

[the_coach]

I know they're aimed at people of varying skill sets, those who need a bit of help either with launch or flight shape or forgiveness, but in the circumstance where someone has been playing with a GI driver and finding the sweet spot, and is thinking of upgrading what actual difference could they expect?

For example, swinging at the same speed and finding the centre, would the Fly Z+ go further than the Fly Z (just an example, the same applies to all brands)? Is it as simple as the extra settings if played with properly will give you extra difference?

I've played very well with a GI driver (Cobra S3 Max) but am thinking of a change - mainly because the flight is high and I'm getting minimal roll so wanted to look at something that may be low spin. In my simple thinking, I see the Fly Z have a similar flight to what I have now (assisting me in getting the ball 'up'; and the Fly Z+ being of less help but maybe adding yardage in the roll?

best ways to go about a change in driver is first off with the current driver it's best to find of what ball park area the existing launch parameters are

on a launch monitor (ideally with a PGA pro who teaches with one - a GC2 HMT as that also gives you the important factor of strike location on the face the single most major factor that influences everything else)

find what the norm launch angle is along with the spin rate and the other parameters of angle of attack, path, face angle at impact and speed
then try out some other drivers to see just what #'s they produce

much generalized rule of thumb but if the strike pattern shows missing center pretty regularly by a bunch or so then likely to be a deal better off staying with a driver model that's going to give the most possible assistance with off center strikes

but as a rule, although I get not as exciting as buying a new driver ...... the biggest bang for you $'s would be getting lessons on a launch monitor to be able to deliver better launch parameters with the existing driver - a new driver is not going to make up for strike issues any ways much

as if you getting very high launch with a dead flight not so much distance then the strike location is going to be coming from high up on the face, nearer the crown than the middle of the face

buying a cheap can of either dry shampoo or foot spray and spraying driver face hitting a bunch of 4 to 6 shots (after having warmed up first off through easy wedge, easy 7i's for a time to get the best tempo/rhythm and balance to the swing motion)
will identify the issues goin down with strike location that lessons would help begin to address

 

[patricks148]

If only it was so simple.

There are a number of stats that give you the best outcome but the type of driver that gives you that could be almost anything.

I've got a Taylormade SLDR. Allegedly the hardest, most unforgiving driver out there. It replaced a more forgiving driver that was lousy for me. I've since put a very forgiving driver in my bag, only for it to come back out and the SLDR to go back in.

Find a decent independent fitter who will let you try a number of options.

I regret getting rid of my SLDR.

during a lesson with my pro last week, he was admiring my M1 and got out his SLDR Tp the same as the one i had and we did a comparison.

SLDR came out on top for out the middle/flushed and the M1 were all about the same sort of distance for middle and off center strikes.

 

[Alex1975]

M1 were all about the same sort of distance for middle and off center strikes.

...... And that made you miss the SLDR that you only got good distance out of the middle? ...... :clap:

 

[rksquire]

....not quite so simple as non-GI drivers are longer.

More a case of naturally faster players often generate more spin and therefore a low spin driver will bring them closer to the ideal....

Don't think that's me that's be to be honest although I wish it was!

......If you have a consistent swing then there's no substitute for a fitting - but understand the output data clearly! 190 +60 only beats 220 +20 when the landing conditions are as programmed (should be obvious but it's amazing how easy it is for people to get confused)..... but once the pro started tweaking the club's basic settings, and I suspect his swing a touch too, he was gaining 25 on the best ones......

It's less about the club and more about the right one for you - and then theirs shafts as well.

I think this worries me - I've seen the fitting videos / product tests and they all produce roll, I'm slightly apprehensive that if I use my own driver it'll show roll that I don't currently have, I'll end up agreeing to something that when I hit the course is no better than what I have!

You sound like a club manufacturer's dream customer.

Ignore the marketing. Don't read any club tests. Just find a trackman at a golf shop and pick up as many drivers that you like the look of. .....ensure I bought the exact one that I had been hitting as one shaft can differ from another, even if the label says it is the same.

It's taken me a long time to start to understand the possible variances (particularly spin rates) and even longer to be convinced the difference it could make... although clearly I need to get to a fitter now to at least see the possible variances

If only it was so simple.

There are a number of stats that give you the best outcome but the type of driver that gives you.....

Find a decent independent fitter who will let you try a number of options.

Seems to be a theme developing. Out of interest would an independent fitter be a better option than AG for example?

best ways to go about a change in driver is first off with the current driver it's best to find of what ball park area the existing launch parameters are

on a launch monitor (ideally with a PGA pro who teaches with one - a GC2 HMT as that also gives you the important factor of strike location on the face the single most major factor that influences everything else)

find what the norm launch angle is along with the spin rate and the other parameters of angle of attack, path, face angle at impact and speed
then try out some other drivers to see just what #'s they produce

much generalized rule of thumb but if the strike pattern shows missing center pretty regularly by a bunch or so then likely to be a deal better off staying with a driver model that's going to give the most possible assistance with off center strikes

but as a rule, although I get not as exciting as buying a new driver ...... the biggest bang for you $'s would be getting lessons on a launch monitor to be able to deliver better launch parameters with the existing driver - a new driver is not going to make up for strike issues any ways much

as if you getting very high launch with a dead flight not so much distance then the strike location is going to be coming from high up on the face, nearer the crown than the middle of the face

buying a cheap can of either dry shampoo or foot spray and spraying driver face hitting a bunch of 4 to 6 shots (after having warmed up first off through easy wedge, easy 7i's for a time to get the best tempo/rhythm and balance to the swing motion)
will identify the issues goin down with strike location that lessons would help begin to address

Strangely this has only popped into my head after a few months of very consistent and decent play and I'm not sold on the notion - however I can see how my scoring could improve on 2-3 holes with an extra 15 yards! I don't have many parameters other than visual and course measurements, I have the sprayed the head for the strike pattern which is generally centre, with off-centre hits towards the heel but not by much but still along centre line if that makes sense? Ball flight is an arc, very high, right to left (occasionally just straight), ball carry depending on the hole 220 (level, into wind) to 245 (slight cross wind, slightly down). Landing mark about 1-2 yards from ball.

Think I will make an arrangement to try a few at a fitter / shop and then talk it over with my pro at next months lesson.

 

[Waitforme]

Remove the weight from the rear of the sole of the Fly Z , put some lead tape on the front of the sole - Bingo. You have yourself a Fly Z + to try , if it works either stick with it or trade for the Z+.

 

[Karl102]

Just go out and enjoy a fitting. At the end of the day, even f you don't buy it will give you a good idea of what you need.
My advice is to go to a range with a launch monitor so you can see the full flight and not just hit into a curtain.... In terms of a high flight, it was more about the shaft than the club for me....

 

[rksquire]

More confused than ever now! Following the above, made an arrangement to go to AG to wet the toes, but now more confused than ever. Hit some shots with my own, spin range 1800 to 2200, high ball flight and 10-13 yards of roll. Tried 4 different clubs and combinations and ended the session with a driver cranked down to 7.5 but still a launch angle of 15. Spin was even lower at 1300ish but even though it was slightly further, his advice was it wasn't sufficient to justify dropping the cash for a new driver. His advice was to play with tee heights and see if I could reduce my launch angle.

Was a bit disappointed and didn't get to try the fly z+ as he no longer had one, so called in to another AG on way home and the pro put me on the sim again. He tried a few things, then set me up with the F6 and this yielded the best results with longer carry and roll.

Thinking about it afterwards, I misdiagnosed my problem and mislead the first guy - albeit I'm surprised he didn't say high spin isn't the issue so we need to look at something else. The second session was better although given the previous threads on here I was questioning if settings at both were the same!

I'm going to go for a 3rd session, this time pay for one at a range but I'm now really thinking I need a lesson or 2 to focus on how to reduce launch angle.

 

[guest100718]

Whats a non GI driver?

 

[guest100718]

Or a GI driver for that matter...

 

[thesheriff]

Game Improvement.

 

[guest100718]

Game Improvement.

As in some examples of gi vs non gi. They all seem pretty much the same these days. Better of getting on a launch monitor and seeing where you need to improve.

 

[MadAdey]

All about what looks good to your eye. The non GI drivers tend to have smaller more compact heads. I'm using the SLDR 430 TP and love the way the smaller head looks. I find the 460 heads to look big and clumsy, but that is just my opinion.

Obviously the smaller headed drivers will have a smaller sweet spot and they are more geared towards the better golfer with a swing that can pretty much find the middle more often than not. Will it go further, probably, but you also need to more consistent with it too.

Best thing I would say is go and take a 460 and a 430 driver out in the same model and see what results you get. But just do not get caught up in which one goes further. You need to look at dispersal and consistency of distance.

 

[Foxholer]

More confused than ever now! Following the above, made an arrangement to go to AG to wet the toes, but now more confused than ever. Hit some shots with my own, spin range 1800 to 2200, high ball flight and 10-13 yards of roll. Tried 4 different clubs and combinations and ended the session with a driver cranked down to 7.5 but still a launch angle of 15. Spin was even lower at 1300ish but even though it was slightly further, his advice was it wasn't sufficient to justify dropping the cash for a new driver. His advice was to play with tee heights and see if I could reduce my launch angle.

Was a bit disappointed and didn't get to try the fly z+ as he no longer had one, so called in to another AG on way home and the pro put me on the sim again. He tried a few things, then set me up with the F6 and this yielded the best results with longer carry and roll.

Thinking about it afterwards, I misdiagnosed my problem and mislead the first guy - albeit I'm surprised he didn't say high spin isn't the issue so we need to look at something else. The second session was better although given the previous threads on here I was questioning if settings at both were the same!

I'm going to go for a 3rd session, this time pay for one at a range but I'm now really thinking I need a lesson or 2 to focus on how to reduce launch angle.

Spin definitely doesn't seem to be your problem!

Launch Angle MIGHT be an issue, but even that looks marginal. TM's SLDR marketing '17/1700' (launch/spin) is pretty much spot on. Remember that launch actually appears much higher to the player hitting the ball than to guys standing a few yards to one side - because the lack of 'perspective' means the player only really sees the vertical part of the flight (the x-axis).

Provided you are using your own club as a reference, you shouldn't need to consider differences in settings - except perhaps 'type of ground' to cover roll.

Indeed, a quick assessment and, perhaps, adjustment by a Pro could well be the best solution!