Gerrard to retire

[Rooter]

He should have joined City or Arsenal this season , play 10 games and have a last chance at picking up a league winner medal.

They get medals for finishing 4th?!

 

[Tashyboy]

Why do we seem to make the assumption that talented experienced players make good coaches. Especially British players who on the whole have been brought up to run around a lot and not worry that much about technique. Yes some will, but then again some very inexperienced players who were very average will also make good coaches.

What you have said Hacker is exactly what I said in my post re Pearce and Keegan, can remember watching one of Pearces City sides when he was manager and it was god awful boring drivel to watch..
I believe that, ? The PFA have a system in which they will pay for ex players to go through there badges. It rankles a lot of people coz they have to pay if not an ex pro player. But players like Stevie G get it for nowt. Don't know if it has changed though recently.
can remember about 17 yr ago, my lad was playing for Notts county in a comp ( 10 yr old) I was talking to a guy who said England has 900 IEFA "B" coaches. I was impressed. He said " France has 10,000 ". Now for me there in lies the problem. Stevie G may well do a good job as a coach, but not on a Sunday morning in December at Rennuth bogs. Wi Rainworth Tigers under 10's.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Its a strange one. I saw a lot of Keegan's management as Fulham manager and we played some good stuff. However he was completely out of his depth with England and it showed clearly. I like Gerrard and respect what he achieved in the game and hope he can find a niche in coaching or management and make a success of it. However as Neville showed in Spain recently it can be massive, especially at bigger clubs.

 

[MadAdey]

With reference to big name players getting an easy ride through their coaching qualifications, I think it is because we need to get top players to go into coaching after their playing careers finish. The more that go into it, the better chance we have of finding a great one. The only top class player from the English top flight that I can think of that has gone onto success as a manager in the last few decades was Dalglish and he was Scottish.

It just appears that great players do not necessarily make great coaches.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

With reference to big name players getting an easy ride through their coaching qualifications, I think it is because we need to get top players to go into coaching after their playing careers finish. The more that go into it, the better chance we have of finding a great one. The only top class player from the English top flight that I can think of that has gone onto success as a manager in the last few decades was Dalglish and he was Scottish.

It just appears that great players do not necessarily make great coaches.

Keeping Gerrard out of this as I'll be accused of biase.

Are you saying we should fast track loads in the hope of getting one?

How have other countries managed it?

Surely it would be identifying the possible coaches when they are still players rather than just believing we need great players to become great coaches, the best managers have been the "lesser" players, ie Fergie.

Also what is the criteria for determining who is a top player?

 

[Hobbit]

Fast tracking happens quite often. When new industry qualifications are stipulated as a requirement to work there's often a "grandfather" clause that allows those with many years experience to forego the need to get those qualifications.

Can't see why that shouldn't be the case in football.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Fast tracking happens quite often. When new industry qualifications are stipulated as a requirement to work there's often a "grandfather" clause that allows those with many years experience to forego the need to get those qualifications.

Can't see why that shouldn't be the case in football.

The fast tracking they're talking about for the best Pros is quick loading on to the courses, they still need to gain the badges, some of the best managers we've had, had no official quals, it's more about meeting UEFA/FIFA standards to hold the position.
Giving your Lampard/Gerrards a chance to jump in at the deep end could work wonders.

 

[Papas1982]

The fast tracking they're talking about for the best Pros is quick loading on to the courses, they still need to gain the badges, some of the best managers we've had, had no official quals, it's more about meeting UEFA/FIFA standards to hold the position.
Giving your Lampard/Gerrards a chance to jump in at the deep end could work wonders.

If you look at most of the top managers on these shores in recent years, thhy have started at relatively small clubs.

Now players like giggs turn down teams as they dont "show enough ambition". How about you prove yourself first buddy, hten maybe a big club will give you a chance.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If you look at most of the top managers on these shores in recent years, thhy have started at relatively small clubs.

Now players like giggs turn down teams as they dont "show enough ambition". How about you prove yourself first buddy, hten maybe a big club will give you a chance.

Exactly. Nevilee thought he knew it all and took a huge job at Sevilla and that didn't work out too well. Even Fergie started at East Stirling before St Mirren. Hardly the biggest of clubs

 

[Papas1982]

Exactly. Nevilee thought he knew it all and took a huge job at Sevilla and that didn't work out too well. Even Fergie started at East Stirling before St Mirren. Hardly the biggest of clubs

To be fair to neville, most people agreed he came across well on tv, and he took the chance when it came up. He's also been big enough to admit its not for him.

Fergie, Klopp, Ancelotti, Mourinho (even Guardiola managed a youth team). Yet some want it all to easy.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you look at most of the top managers on these shores in recent years, thhy have started at relatively small clubs.

Now players like giggs turn down teams as they dont "show enough ambition". How about you prove yourself first buddy, hten maybe a big club will give you a chance.

There prob isn't a correct way for everyone to be a top manager - it will be different from person to person and of course the clubs they go too

Using Gerrard as an example he could do his learning within Liverpool and build up through that system - maybe Lampard could do the lower league method but I think it's going to be very hard for anyone and a lot of it will come down to personality and the coaches a manager surrounds himself with. Kenny as soon as he got the job had Bob with him alongside the Boot Room coaches

Agree that people can't turn down clubs when they have no experience and think will for example will learn from his time in Valencia - took a risk over there but won't have damaged any further ambition he had

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Exactly. Nevilee thought he knew it all and took a huge job at Sevilla and that didn't work out too well. Even Fergie started at East Stirling before St Mirren. Hardly the biggest of clubs

Fergie was a good player, not a top player, not even an international.
Dalglish, Souness, Keegan and even Howard Kendall were all international players who went straight into management and had success, the days of player managers seem long gone.

 

[Papas1982]

There prob isn't a correct way for everyone to be a top manager - it will be different from person to person and of course the clubs they go too

Using Gerrard as an example he could do his learning within Liverpool and build up through that system - maybe Lampard could do the lower league method but I think it's going to be very hard for anyone and a lot of it will come down to personality and the coaches a manager surrounds himself with. Kenny as soon as he got the job had Bob with him alongside the Boot Room coaches

Agree that people can't turn down clubs when they have no experience and think will for example will learn from his time in Valencia - took a risk over there but won't have damaged any further ambition he had

I agree, I'm not saying all top coaches have to go away and earn it as such. I just think that if they deep down want to manage then pretty much any experience they can get will have some sort of benefit.

Unfortunately, far too many won't want to do the hard miles imo as they have the money to live forever on and dont want the hassle.

Personally hope he does well and think working around klopp could be perfect. My favourite attribute about Gerrard was his enthusiasm and there certainly arent many managers that match klopp on that front, better to learn from someone with similar traits.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

To be fair to neville, most people agreed he came across well on tv, and he took the chance when it came up. He's also been big enough to admit its not for him.

Fergie, Klopp, Ancelotti, Mourinho (even Guardiola managed a youth team). Yet some want it all to easy.

Have the days gone where you can learn your trade via the old boot room that existed at Arsenal (Don Howe etc), Liverpool etc. It seems now a manager has to go straight in, normally with their own (sometimes equally inexperienced) back room team and get immediate results. The chance to serve an apprenticeship doesn't seem to be there

 

[Papas1982]

Have the days gone where you can learn your trade via the old boot room that existed at Arsenal (Don Howe etc), Liverpool etc. It seems now a manager has to go straight in, normally with their own (sometimes equally inexperienced) back room team and get immediate results. The chance to serve an apprenticeship doesn't seem to be there

I think giggs had the opportunity, he could have tried to learn from Mourinho, or gone lower to the u21's. He chose to leave as he didnt get the job he wanted and now he doesn't want anything else lol

I think unless you are a gerrard or giggs, very few will be given the chance straight from retirement. At their current team

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think giggs had the opportunity, he could have tried to learn from Mourinho, or gone lower to the u21's. He chose to leave as he didnt get the job he wanted and now he doesn't want anything else lol

I think unless you are a gerrard or giggs, very few will be given the chance straight from retirement. At their current team

I don't think we'll see any top players getting a chance anymore, owners are not willing to risk giving them enough time.
Plus how many top players actually want to coach, some like the Nevilles and Giggs started there coaching licences when they were still playing mid career, others like Shearer got dispensation to manage as he was not qualified but was mid course.
Always thought Carragher would make a decent coach but do they want the instability?

 

[pokerjoke]

Exactly. Nevilee thought he knew it all and took a huge job at Sevilla and that didn't work out too well. Even Fergie started at East Stirling before St Mirren. Hardly the biggest of clubs

Suggesting Neville thought he knew it all is just being stupid for stupids sake.

Spelling his name wrong and getting the wrong team he managed is just lack of knowledge or laziness

Take a leaf out of LP book and google first saves you some embarrassment.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Ignoring the cheap jibes although I'll give you the team, the point seems the same to me. Why go to such a big club, especially one abroad as your first managerial role. He clearly thought he knew enough to do it as did the Valencia board to appoint him. His record clearly showed he was way out of his depth and what he thought he knew to do the job wasn't good enough

 

[Junior]

Exactly. Nevilee thought he knew it all and took a huge job at Sevilla and that didn't work out too well. Even Fergie started at East Stirling before St Mirren. Hardly the biggest of clubs

Not the case Martin. By his own admission, the offer (from Valencia not Sevilla) came completely out of the blue off the back of his England work and his punditry, maybe Phil Neville being a coach their helped also......it was too good an oopportunity to turn down. Did it work out, not at all, but, he went out of his comfort zone and gave it 100%. Fair play for doing that.

edit, the documentary on it was really good. He is really a grounded bloke.

 

[pokerjoke]

Ignoring the cheap jibes although I'll give you the team, the point seems the same to me. Why go to such a big club, especially one abroad as your first managerial role. He clearly thought he knew enough to do it as did the Valencia board to appoint him. His record clearly showed he was way out of his depth and what he thought he knew to do the job wasn't good enough

Not disagreeing with all your post just your lack of care posting it,the key to getting a good argument out is to get your facts right first,Googles a good place to start.

Yes a cheap dig but a valid one imho