F1 2021

[Swango1980]

Just reading some articles on F1. One that was published last Tuesday (well ahead of the final race) was by Sam Cooper. with the headline:

The most important man in the climax of the F1's epic title race might not be a driver, but a 42-year-old Australian official

I wonder how Sam felt on Sunday evening, probably chuffed with his prediction. The sad thing is, events leading up to the event even allowed this to enter people's heads. And, the fact that it turned out the way it did is remarkable. I know it makes for a good Netflix series, although I'd imagine the series itself will be biased enough to not be too critical of the FIA.

 

[bobmac]

I know it makes for a good Netflix series, although I'd imagine the series itself will be biased enough to not be too critical of the FIA.

Don't expect to see too much of Max in this years series...

https://www.si.com/racing/2021/10/2...e-new-season-max-verstappen-not-participating

 

[Swango1980]

The ££ hasn’t been mentioned much in any discussion. But I wonder what value could be placed on the marketing potential for Mercedes and any endorsements or contract bonuses Lewis may have got for being an 8xWDC? It must run into tens, if not hundreds of millions?

Maybe Mercedes will cut a Ferrari style secret deal with the FIA, to drop it for an extra coupe of teraflops worth of CFD ?

Yes, it is hard to determine what the financial implications may be. I believe Mercedes staff were due to get a £10,000 bonus if Lewis won the Championship, but I believe Mercedes are still going to honour those bonuses.

It looks like Verstappen gets a £12 million bonus for winning, so I'm sure he is pleased, regardless of how tainted the win might be.

Maybe more widespread figures will come out in potential losses as time goes on. I'd imagine if Mercedes continue to appeal, they will want to quote how much money they could have lost to support why they are appealing.

 

[Foxholer]

On the piece you posted it states that the cars were let through to let the “leaders“ race. That was the justification behind making that decision. Now if memory serves me right. The podium has three places for the first three. Yet the cars between 2nd and third were not allowed to overtake or unload themselves. The argument looks weaker by the day.

They, had made the decision to 'let them race'. Had they allowed/required those behind Verstappen to un-lap themselves, the SC would still have been out on the final lap - so the race would have finished 'under SC'. Btw. I'm not saying that was 'the right' decision (I don't believe it was), simply showing their 'logic'.

 

[Swango1980]

Don't expect to see too much of Max in this years series...

https://www.si.com/racing/2021/10/2...e-new-season-max-verstappen-not-participating

Not a big problem, as long as Championship winner Michael Masi is on the show, fans will be happy

 

[Piece]

We've seen and heard Toto and Christian on at MM over the radio. I would imagine the other teams were in his ear (or other persons in race control)?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

We've seen and heard Toto and Christian on at MM over the radio. I would imagine the other teams were in his ear (or other persons in race control)?

They will all have been doing it. Let’s not forget Horner was asking for just one racing lap? And the full Redbull to race director coms has yet to be released.

 

[Swango1980]

We've seen and heard Toto and Christian on at MM over the radio. I would imagine the other teams were in his ear (or other persons in race control)?

Not so sure. If the Championship had already been won before the race, I doubt Christian or Toto would have been in the ear of MM. So, I doubt other teams would have felt the need to enthusiastically try and influence the decision of MM.

I think Christian was desperately trying to lobby MM into making a completely unprecedented, undocumented decision (which, credit to him, worked). Toto was talking to MM is utter disbelief and despair. I think everyone else was just looking at events unfold in confusion. If Sainz needed to finish first or second to win the championship, or even place Ferrari higher up in the Constructors, I'd imagine they'd also have been passionately in the ear of MM.

 

[Tashyboy]

Liveroool vs Man City in the CL final, City 3-0 up in injury time then the ref says next goal winner and Liverpool score ?

Put an asterisk at the side of it to go with the others ?

 

[SaintHacker]

Have just been sent this, pretty damming if it’s genuine.


View attachment 39960

If thats true then Masi doesnt have a leg tonstand on and needs removing. I dont care about the result, if the track wasn't clear and he's called the safety car in thats indefensible. What if a lone marshal was still on the track, or a piece of lifting equipment? It doesnt bear thinking about

 

[bobmac]

If thats true then Masi doesnt have a leg tonstand on and needs removing. I dont care about the result, if the track wasn't clear and he's called the safety car in thats indefensible. What if a lone marshal was still on the track, or a piece of lifting equipment? It doesnt bear thinking about

Isn't that why the safety car doesn't normally come in until the end of the following lap to make sure everything is safe for everyone? The clue is, after all, in the name.

It boils down to Massi didn't want his first F1 chamionship to fizzle out and end behind the SC

 

[Canary_Yellow]

If thats true then Masi doesnt have a leg tonstand on and needs removing. I dont care about the result, if the track wasn't clear and he's called the safety car in thats indefensible. What if a lone marshal was still on the track, or a piece of lifting equipment? It doesnt bear thinking about

Those messages could all be simultaneous, couldn't they? Also, aren't those messages to the teams, rather than messages to Masi? Masi might well have received them a little while earlier before uploading to the system?

I don't think there's any chance that Masi releases the lapped cars if the track isn't clear, or calls in the safety car.

 

[Swango1980]

If thats true then Masi doesnt have a leg tonstand on and needs removing. I dont care about the result, if the track wasn't clear and he's called the safety car in thats indefensible. What if a lone marshal was still on the track, or a piece of lifting equipment? It doesnt bear thinking about

It is intriguing if that screenshot is accurate. If it is, then huge concern.

There are plenty of detailed guidelines as to what procedures SHOULD be followed during and after the safety car. Michael Masi did not follow any of these. However, his defence, is that the overriding rule is that the Race Director has the ultimate say, regardless of what the other procedures state. Now, one would imagine this is purely a safety requirement. Michael Masi's job is primarily to keep everyone safe. So, if a specific event unfolded, that has not been imagined or predicted before, that meant the documented procedures might not provide maximum safety, then the Race Director can override these procedures if necessary to increase safety. That would make perfect, logical sense.

However, I am certain this overriding power was never given to the Race Director simply to use if he felt it made a race more exciting. Gave him that power to add drama. Hand him that power to directly influence a different outcome in a Championship Winner. So, it was already a shocking and flimsy defence by the FIA, unless they could argue that Masi's unusual decision was to improve safety.

However, if he did tell the safety car to come in even before the track was cleared, then that potentially indicated a serious breach in his duties. We've seen how confused all the teams were by his decision. However, you are correct about other people potentially involved. Would marshalling teams have known Michael Masi was going to do this? Or, would they have been equally confused by the messages they were getting? If the track was not yet clear, and Masi announced the safety car would be in on the next lap, then this message would have needed to be communicated to Marshal leaders. I can imagine them desperately trying to get their guys off the track, as the race was about to restart imminently. Never should it be that way round. The marshals should clear the track, relay that message, and then only when Masi is certain the track is clear, he can start thinking about the restart procedure.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

It is intriguing if that screenshot is accurate. If it is, then huge concern.

There are plenty of detailed guidelines as to what procedures SHOULD be followed during and after the safety car. Michael Masi did not follow any of these. However, his defence, is that the overriding rule is that the Race Director has the ultimate say, regardless of what the other procedures state. Now, one would imagine this is purely a safety requirement. Michael Masi's job is primarily to keep everyone safe. So, if a specific event unfolded, that has not been imagined or predicted before, that meant the documented procedures might not provide maximum safety, then the Race Director can override these procedures if necessary to increase safety. That would make perfect, logical sense.

However, I am certain this overriding power was never given to the Race Director simply to use if he felt it made a race more exciting. Gave him that power to add drama. Hand him that power to directly influence a different outcome in a Championship Winner. So, it was already a shocking and flimsy defence by the FIA, unless they could argue that Masi's unusual decision was to improve safety.

However, if he did tell the safety car to come in even before the track was cleared, then that potentially indicated a serious breach in his duties. We've seen how confused all the teams were by his decision. However, you are correct about other people potentially involved. Would marshalling teams have known Michael Masi was going to do this? Or, would they have been equally confused by the messages they were getting? If the track was not yet clear, and Masi announced the safety car would be in on the next lap, then this message would have needed to be communicated to Marshal leaders. I can imagine them desperately trying to get their guys off the track, as the race was about to restart imminently. Never should it be that way round. The marshals should clear the track, relay that message, and then only when Masi is certain the track is clear, he can start thinking about the restart procedure.

I just can't believe he would have done that. My opinion is we're looking at the order in which messages were relayed to the teams, not the order in which the information was relayed to Masi.

 

[woofers]

All this “let them race” and “it’s called a motor race” seems to be overlooking the very fact that they were racing, and it was a motor race, and with 5 laps to go the leader was ahead of the next driver by roughly 12 seconds…
Events then transpired to overturn the whole thing. The obvious answer would be to reinstate race positions, and gaps, prior to be the incident when the race is restarted.

 

[Swango1980]

I just can't believe he would have done that. My opinion is we're looking at the order in which messages were relayed to the teams, not the order in which the information was relayed to Masi.

True, definitely why I caveated my response with the word "If".

For all I know, that screenshot could have been produced by some guy in his pants on his computer. Or, as you say, he may have had the messages in a different order.

However, if there is any accuracy in it, and as it is time stamped, you'd normally expect these types of things to be fairly accurate. Especially for a multi million dollar organisation related to Formula 1. So, if there is any accuracy in it, and a big IF, then it does not look good for Masi. He was clearly under a lot of pressure at the time. He has made bizarre decisions all season, and has not shown himself to be calm and confident under pressure. Especially when it comes to the last seconds of a Championship decider. I don't think he would have done what he did if Lewis was 1st and Verstappen was, say 6th. So, he was clearly pressured into his decision for a reason other than safety. He might have anticipated that sections of the track were looking to be clear in the next few seconds (whether it be video footage or communication with marshalls in those locations), and therefore committed himself to bringing the safety car in before those messages were officially put in. After all, he couldn't really wait much longer, otherwise there'd have been no time to unlap those 5 cars and bring the safety car in. So, he could well have jumped the gun, panicking that he'd have been criticised if the season ended behind a safety car. Especially with Horner in his ear.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

True, definitely why I caveated my response with the word "If".

For all I know, that screenshot could have been produced by some guy in his pants on his computer. Or, as you say, he may have had the messages in a different order.

However, if there is any accuracy in it, and as it is time stamped, you'd normally expect these types of things to be fairly accurate. Especially for a multi million dollar organisation related to Formula 1. So, if there is any accuracy in it, and a big IF, then it does not look good for Masi. He was clearly under a lot of pressure at the time. He has made bizarre decisions all season, and has not shown himself to be calm and confident under pressure. Especially when it comes to the last seconds of a Championship decider. I don't think he would have done what he did if Lewis was 1st and Verstappen was, say 6th. So, he was clearly pressured into his decision for a reason other than safety. He might have anticipated that sections of the track were looking to be clear in the next few seconds (whether it be video footage or communication with marshalls in those locations), and therefore committed himself to bringing the safety car in before those messages were officially put in. After all, he couldn't really wait much longer, otherwise there'd have been no time to unlap those 5 cars and bring the safety car in. So, he could well have jumped the gun, panicking that he'd have been criticised if the season ended behind a safety car. Especially with Horner in his ear.

Masi has without doubt earned himself plenty of criticism, but I can't imagine there's any chance he has given the safety car in order before the track is clear.

If this is real, surely it's the transmission of messages to the teams, and they would have gone in order of priority, not necessarily in the order the events actually happened?

 

[Swango1980]

Masi has without doubt earned himself plenty of criticism, but I can't imagine there's any chance he has given the safety car in order before the track is clear.

If this is real, surely it's the transmission of messages to the teams, and they would have gone in order of priority, not necessarily in the order the events actually happened?

For his sake, I hope so.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

For his sake, I hope so.

He'd be fired on the spot

 

[Swango1980]

He'd be fired on the spot

The topic of him being fired is also interesting, seen it discussed in the media, as one would expect. However, if he was sacked, would that be the FIA admitting he did wrong? If Mercedes appealed the result, how could the FIA defend themselves if they actually sacked Masi? That action alone would be an admission he acted in the wrong way.