European golf. Kaymers nearest point of relief from gur. Anyone see it?

[Swinglowandslow]

Seems his ball was on trees side of GUR, just outside it. He could have stood in GUR and played it.
Instead, he took relief. IIRC, this has to be complete relief, .
As I saw it, that meant he was virtually stood on the point where his ball had been laying.
Any swing which he would take from that stance would put his ball further towards the trees, whereas he would seem to want to get the ball more in the opposite direction which gave him a clearer flight to the green.
His discussion with the rules official seemed to be wanting ( judging by the actions of his caddie) that he wanted to ( and got) measure the club length from the spot where his feet would be in his stance when he took relief.
That club length was arced back so that the left edge of the arc was furthest from the trees.And still outside GUR.Thats where he ( placed, I believe) the ball.

I always thought that when you took your stance upon obtaining complete relief, your club length was measured from where your club would rest in your stance. Not from where your feet were.?

 

[rulie]

Seems his ball was on trees side of GUR, just outside it. He could have stood in GUR and played it.
Instead, he took relief. IIRC, this has to be complete relief, .
As I saw it, that meant he was virtually stood on the point where his ball had been laying.
Any swing which he would take from that stance would put his ball further towards the trees, whereas he would seem to want to get the ball more in the opposite direction which gave him a clearer flight to the green.
His discussion with the rules official seemed to be wanting ( judging by the actions of his caddie) that he wanted to ( and got) measure the club length from the spot where his feet would be in his stance when he took relief.
That club length was arced back so that the left edge of the arc was furthest from the trees.And still outside GUR.Thats where he ( placed, I believe) the ball.

I always thought that when you took your stance upon obtaining complete relief, your club length was measured from where your club would rest in your stance. Not from where your feet were.?

Didn't see it, but you are correct - the one club-length measurement is from the nearest point of complete relief, which is the point where the ball would lie for complete relief. And the ball must be dropped within the relief area.

 

[DickInShorts]

From what I saw they marked NPR correctly to the right of the spot where the ball was (towards the trees) then measured one club length from there making sure his feet would not be in GUR. As it happened this got him a dropping point almost behind where his ball lay (it was only a small area of GUR) and gave him a line to the green. Also was able to place after first two drops rolled outside the one club length from NPR.
good work by his caddie - the Weeman

 

[Swinglowandslow]

From what I saw they marked NPR correctly to the right of the spot where the ball was (towards the trees) then measured one club length from there making sure his feet would not be in GUR. As it happened this got him a dropping point almost behind where his ball lay (it was only a small area of GUR) and gave him a line to the green. Also was able to place after first two drops rolled outside the one club length from NPR.
good work by his caddie - the Weeman

That is the point of the query. What you write here (is what happened),was it the right thing to do? As it appears different to what Rulie says above should happen, and what I believe should happen.
I.e. Having determined the NPR,he should take his stance there and then the one club length is from where the ball would lay in that stance?
That would have put him towards the trees, wouldn't it?

I also have a query about the placing after dropping. If the ball, upon dropping goes back into a penalty area, or GUR then, yes drop again etc.
But if it merely runs outside the club length, can you drop again because of that? Not sure you can. When dropped it has to 'land' within the clubs length, but where it rolls to is where I think has to be played from if it hasn't gone back into penalty area, GUR etc.- I believe.?

 

[backwoodsman]

That is the point of the query. What you write here (is what happened),was it the right thing to do? As it appears different to what Rulie says above should happen, and what I believe should happen.
I.e. Having determined the NPR,he should take his stance there and then the one club length is from where the ball would lay in that stance?
That would have put him towards the trees, wouldn't it?

I also have a query about the placing after dropping. If the ball, upon dropping goes back into a penalty area, or GUR then, yes drop again etc.
But if it merely runs outside the club length, can you drop again because of that? Not sure you can. When dropped it has to 'land' within the clubs length, but where it rolls to is where I think has to be played from if it hasn't gone back into penalty area, GUR etc.- I believe.?

The ball must stay in the relief area. If it rolls outside it has to be redropped (or placed).

 

[Colin L]

That is the point of the query. What you write here (is what happened),was it the right thing to do? As it appears different to what Rulie says above should happen, and what I believe should happen.
I.e. Having determined the NPR,he should take his stance there and then the one club length is from where the ball would lay in that stance?
That would have put him towards the trees, wouldn't it?

You seem a bit confused. The NPCR is the nearest point where the ball could lie to achieve complete relief from the abnormal course condition for ball, swing and feet. The relief area is the area defined by one club length from the NPCR not nearer the hole and such that there is complete relief from the ACC. See Rule 16.

 

[salfordlad]

The ball must stay in the relief area. If it rolls outside it has to be redropped (or placed).

Yes and this is a significant change from pre 2019. Ball must land in and come to rest in that 1CL (or 2CL in other cases) relief area. The pros are very practiced in dropping on a juicy lie right on the edge of the relief area (this is why they often get very precise with marking the relief area with a tee) such that the ball rolls outside the relief area and when that happens a second time they get to place on that juicy lie. Random drop outcome? No thank you.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

You seem a bit confused. The NPCR is the nearest point where the ball could lie to achieve complete relief from the abnormal course condition for ball, swing and feet. The relief area is the area defined by one club length from the NPCR not nearer the hole and such that there is complete relief from the ACC. See Rule 16.

Not confused , merely incorrect?. Salfordlad clarifies re ball being dropped /placed.

 

[jim8flog]

Yes and this is a significant change from pre 2019. Ball must land in and come to rest in that 1CL (or 2CL in other cases) relief area. The pros are very practiced in dropping on a juicy lie right on the edge of the relief area (this is why they often get very precise with marking the relief area with a tee) such that the ball rolls outside the relief area and when that happens a second time they get to place on that juicy lie. Random drop outcome? No thank you.

Having watched many an amateur drop a ball I cannot believe how little care some take over where they actually drop a ball. E.G. I have watched ball drops in to 6" deep grass with near perfect lies within the relief area.

 

[rulie]

Having watched many an amateur drop a ball I cannot believe how little care some take over where they actually drop a ball. E.G. I have watched ball drops in to 6" deep grass with near perfect lies within the relief area.

As a professional ice hockey coach once said about players, "You can't teach fast and you can't fix stupid."