England V Poland

[Golfmmad]

Enjoyed watching the uber-chavs for change. Played some decent stuff. Especially Baines and Townsend although it was disappointing to see the latter diving to try and win free kicks. I thought Rooney was his usual overrated, average self for most of the game but it was a beautiful header, perfectly placed from a superb cross.

However, they have just about no chance of success at the Finals. Brazil will win and they and at least 6 other teams can give England a footballing lesson. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

I think you're wrong about Rooney, who else have we got better than him? A lot of people just don't like Rooney and can't bring themselves to admit it. Name me a player more committed to England's cause, he works his socks off for the team. If every player in the team had his work rate and commitment we really would be a force to be reckoned with.

You may be right though Snelly, being given a footballing lesson by some other teams, but it's about winning games. And I do not think Brazil will win this time. I can't think of anyone outstanding from their side - not like in previous years where you could name at least half a dozen world class players.

Now Spain and Germany...............




Possibly England!!!!

 

[Snelly]

I think you're wrong about Rooney, who else have we got better than him? A lot of people just don't like Rooney and can't bring themselves to admit it. Name me a player more committed to England's cause, he works his socks off for the team. If every player in the team had his work rate and commitment we really would be a force to be reckoned with.

You may be right though Snelly, being given a footballing lesson by some other teams, but it's about winning games. And I do not think Brazil will win this time. I can't think of anyone outstanding from their side - not like in previous years where you could name at least half a dozen world class players.

Now Spain and Germany...............




Possibly England!!!!

A good post.

With Rooney though, unfortunately precedents are set and he has proven that he can't deliver when the stakes are highest in tournament play against the best defenders in the world. Admittedly I'm braised as I used to go to Maine Road a lot as a student and cannot stand MUFC. Even with my blinkers off, I still can't quite see why everyone thinks Rooney is world class. He may well be the best that England has but that is not the same thing. We don't have world class players any more in my view. No Englishman would get in the Spain side. No way. Not even Cashley Hole.

 

[Golfmmad]

A good post.

With Rooney though, unfortunately precedents are set and he has proven that he can't deliver when the stakes are highest in tournament play against the best defenders in the world. Admittedly I'm braised as I used to go to Maine Road a lot as a student and cannot stand MUFC. Even with my blinkers off, I still can't quite see why everyone thinks Rooney is world class. He may well be the best that England has but that is not the same thing. We don't have world class players any more in my view. No Englishman would get in the Spain side. No way. Not even Cashley Hole.

Ok, I'll forgive you this time for not liking MUFC. (computer will not do smiley face!)

I have to agree though, that Rooney has yet to prove his "World Class" status. But he certainly is the best we have for this World Cup.
By the time it gets to Brazil we may have some younger players bursting through - like Townsend has, and young Barclay looks an exciting prospect. If only Wilshere can shake off those injuries, we could have a team ya know!!

Ooo, I'm getting excited!!!

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think you're wrong about Rooney, who else have we got better than him? A lot of people just don't like Rooney and can't bring themselves to admit it. Name me a player more committed to England's cause, he works his socks off for the team. If every player in the team had his work rate and commitment we really would be a force to be reckoned with.

You may be right though Snelly, being given a footballing lesson by some other teams, but it's about winning games. And I do not think Brazil will win this time. I can't think of anyone outstanding from their side - not like in previous years where you could name at least half a dozen world class players.

Now Spain and Germany...............

Possibly England!!!!

You see I really do not get this work rate and commitment malarkey. It just seems that those type of attributes are so valued in English football. When I'd argue that in fact the England team does have a great work rate. As running around a lot of 90 minutes is something English teams do very well. But the game has moved on. Yes of course you need those qualities, but if that's it then you will, indeed we always do, get beaten when you come up against opposition that keep possession. As all England do is run themselves ragged chasing the ball for most of the game. And when they get it the usually give it away cheaply and off they go chasing again.

As for famous Brazilians I'd give you Neymar. Barcelona signed him for 50 odd million recently and he would walk into just about any team in the world. But I agree Brazil probably wont win it and you can't look much past Spain or Germany. Or Switzerland as FIFA seem to have been ranked as one of the seeds and top 8 teams in the world

 

[HawkeyeMS]

You see I really do not get this work rate and commitment malarkey. It just seems that those type of attributes are so valued in English football. When I'd argue that in fact the England team does have a great work rate. As running around a lot of 90 minutes is something English teams do very well. But the game has moved on. Yes of course you need those qualities, but if that's it then you will, indeed we always do, get beaten when you come up against opposition that keep possession. As all England do is run themselves ragged chasing the ball for most of the game. And when they get it the usually give it away cheaply and off they go chasing again.

As for famous Brazilians I'd give you Neymar. Barcelona signed him for 50 odd million recently and he would walk into just about any team in the world. But I agree Brazil probably wont win it and you can't look much past Spain or Germany. Or Switzerland as FIFA seem to have been ranked as one of the seeds and top 8 teams in the world

Th thing I don't get is that we seem to laud over players for their workrate and commitment when in fact that is what they should be doing. It should be the default position of every footballer to be committed and work hard, you shouldn't get praise for it. It's what they achieve with that wokrate and committment they should be judged on.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Th thing I don't get is that we seem to laud over players for their workrate and commitment when in fact that is what they should be doing. It should be the default position of every footballer to be committed and work hard, you shouldn't get praise for it. It's what they achieve with that wokrate and committment they should be judged on.

It's the same with Townsend. He seems to be lauded because he is not James Milner and he can take someone one. Well isn't that kind of the minimum you should expect from a winger?

 

[Snelly]

I agree with you both.

When we talk about Xavi and Iniesta, we know that they work very hard, especially when they don't have the ball. However that is not what they are admired for, it is just a given. We admire them for their perfect passes, ball retention, exquisite first touch, capability to switch play, ball skills and control and especially, their speed of thought and awareness of others. It's not just about graft. Fit professionals should be able to operate at capacity for a full match but there is no skill in this.

Another point is that when Rooney fell out with MUFC and it looked as though he was going to leave, there were no top sides remotely interested. Barcelona weren't interested and instead, went for a genuine world class talent in Neymar. In fact, the only clubs that showed an interest were Chelsea, a club daft enough to spend £50m on Torres and PSG, who have more money than sense in a weak league.

The one world class talent we did produce on these shores recently has now been snapped up by Real Madrid for a world record fee. Our players are just not as good as the best in the world and that is why they are in the Premiership and not sought by the world's best teams.

 

[Foxholer]

To me, Rooney typifies both the best and worst of English Football - committed, fast and strong, but (only) just lacking the touch of genius that separates the very top international stars from the 'merely great'!

I believe the rigours of the English game (especiially the EPL), some of the grass-roots environments and the English weather are major causes of that 'natural English style'!

And attitudes by clubs and players towards playing for England need to change as well imo!

And the English Press doesn't help either!

 

[harpo_72]

I agree with you both.

When we talk about Xavi and Iniesta, we know that they work very hard, especially when they don't have the ball. However that is not what they are admired for, it is just a given. We admire them for their perfect passes, ball retention, exquisite first touch, capability to switch play, ball skills and control and especially, their speed of thought and awareness of others. It's not just about graft. Fit professionals should be able to operate at capacity for a full match but there is no skill in this.

Another point is that when Rooney fell out with MUFC and it looked as though he was going to leave, there were no top sides remotely interested. Barcelona weren't interested and instead, went for a genuine world class talent in Neymar. In fact, the only clubs that showed an interest were Chelsea, a club daft enough to spend £50m on Torres and PSG, who have more money than sense in a weak league.

The one world class talent we did produce on these shores recently has now been snapped up by Real Madrid for a world record fee. Our players are just not as good as the best in the world and that is why they are in the Premiership and not sought by the world's best teams.

I agree, I don't see Rooney having the ability to change a game. Look at Messi, he is man marked and yet he will and does find space to do something that presents an opportunity... Rooney, no chance. Now lets look at Beckham, great on the dead ball lovely passing and incredibly well motivated and could lift his team by example (never give up) but not a world class game changer brilliant but still not world class. World class is something few and far between. Now Gascoigne (sorry for spelling) is or could have been world class, he did things that left people wondering ...
Now you don't have to have world class players to be a world class team, look at Germany, they just play in a committed fashion (like Beckham .. so give me a squad with Beckham's commitment and his skills, pepper that with a bit of speed and well that team would be world class...but the individuals would be great. )
There is potential in England to play great or world class football, but the premiership wont allow it, money is the issue playing for your country and the national sides performances are not respected. When the top league is matched with the national sides performance as part of the judging criteria, perhaps the premier league will take note.

 

[Beezerk]

England players are not intelligent enough to win a tournament, too many "sub standard" teams can pass the ball right through us like a hot knife through butter.
Look at good teams, they have a corner and retain the ball if it gets knocked clear, England lose it every time, absolutely mindless football they play.

 

[mikee247]

To me, Rooney typifies both the best and worst of English Football - committed, fast and strong, but (only) just lacking the touch of genius that separates the very top international stars from the 'merely great'!

I believe the rigours of the English game (especiially the EPL), some of the grass-roots environments and the English weather are major causes of that 'natural English style'!

And attitudes by clubs and players towards playing for England need to change as well imo!

And the English Press doesn't help either!

Some good points here but the weather isnt not overly different in fact more severe in many parts of Europe in the winter especially Germany/ Holland, Belgium, France, Italy Scandinavia..... Also you have to look at the amount of Africans and Mediterranean players that already play in the EPL and deal with the rigours of it they dont seem to mind. With heated well treated pitches and amazing facilities is a walk in the park compared to the old days in the mud wind and snow! Equally the press in Spain and Italy are more vicious than the Daily Mail here...

So I dont see we can blame weather and reporters for no decent English players being produced but you can blame the lack of decent academies perhaps? Its the lack of understanding of what its all about to play for your country by the players and with all the money, fame and opportunity available via the club set up, there is next to no motivation for these egotistical prima donners.

That said, I was mildly impressed with their game plan and attitude on Tuesday ( I actually watched more than 10 mins..) and in fact the whole group stage. I had lost complete interest after the last Euros and last World Cup disaster and Im a patriot of the highest order! I dont think they have a hope in hell of winning any thing over there ( its going to be to hot for them ) but I expect them to get to the quarters easily. The defence leaks like a broken bucket and more talent needed to hold the ball and create goal scoring skills is required to close a game out rather than throw everything at it in complete desperation and loose the ball on the counter! A few good signs for the future with Townsend etc but again he needs to mature and in the big boys games he's way out classed at the moment. Can we get Bale to do a swap?? Good luck to them though but lets not get overly excited this time.