England v France

GB72

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Good debate on the merits of Owen.

As far as I am concerned, the real problem is one of passion and desire to represent your country. I have not seen that from a player in an England shirt since Beckham versus Greece and he had to cover every blade of grass on the pitch because nobody else looks bothered. I do not care if they are the best 11 players in the country just want 11 players who actually look like they want to be there. Mind you, what chance is there of that when most fans would, given the choice, see their club do well than see England win the world cup.
 

toonarmy

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Good debate on the merits of Owen.

As far as I am concerned, the real problem is one of passion and desire to represent your country. I have not seen that from a player in an England shirt since Beckham versus Greece and he had to cover every blade of grass on the pitch because nobody else looks bothered. I do not care if they are the best 11 players in the country just want 11 players who actually look like they want to be there. Mind you, what chance is there of that when most fans would, given the choice, see their club do well than see England win the world cup.
Very well said. International football (in this country) is seen as an obstacle rather than an honour. Are footballers the equivalent of Tiger Woods? Club football provides the opportunities for individual glory (Majors) whereas Internationals are about team and country and less about 'me' (Ryder Cup).

They all talk about 'pride' and 'honour' for their country, but compare their demeanour on and off the pitch to the Rugby boys (both codes). That's what pride and honour in playing for your country looks like.

England - a decent football nation that somehow seems to think/convince itself that it should be good enough to beat anyone and get to all finals, despite decades of evidence to the contrary. :mad:
 

Parmo

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-------- Ben Foster --------

Richards - Terry - Woodgate - Baines

Bentley - Hargreaves - Gerrard or J Cole - Rooney

-------- Defeo - - Heskey ---------

Simple solution 4-4-2 with classic Prem target man and either Gerrard or J cole (I prefer Cole) as creative force in midfield. Also I wasnt sure about keeper, I think Green is slightly better at the present time but Foster the new #1 over the next 6 months.
 

toonarmy

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Emile Heskey - International goal tally of 5 in 44 = 1:8.8
Jermaine Defoe - International goal tally of 3 in 26 = 1:8.7
Wayne Rooney - International goal tally of 14 in 41 = 1:2.9
Steven Gerrard - International goal tally of 12 in 64 = 1:5.3
Joe Cole - International goal tally of 7 in 48 = 1:6.9

= 41 goals in 223 caps 1:5.4

Michael Owen: 40 goals in 88 caps = 1:2.2

Yup. you're all correct. No place at all for Owen. How on earth can he hope to compete with the goal machines of Defoe, Heskey and Rooney? :p :p :p
 

shanker

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Club football provides the opportunities for individual glory (Majors) whereas Internationals are about team and country and less about 'me' (Ryder Cup).
You've lost me again, Toony! How does club football provide opportunities for ''individual'' glory that international football doesn't? Think back ''ma bonnie lad''. Pele, Geoff Hurst, Maradona, Muller, Rossi, Platini etc. They all made themselves famous in World Cups.
As for the players not being committed, what sort of dedication do you expect from a 62 year old Italian manager who can't even speak the players' language? Do you think Fabio dreams of England winning the World Cup or is his mind on a luxurious retirement in Capri?
 

StuartD

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You've lost me again, Toony! How does club football provide opportunities for ''individual'' glory that international football doesn't? Think back ''ma bonnie lad''. Pele, Geoff Hurst, Maradona, Muller, Rossi, Platini etc. They all made themselves famous in World Cups.
Think some would be famous without the world cup. Ask anybody in Napoli about Maradona and the world cup wont even be mentioned.

Platini - just as famous for playing in a great Juve side
Muller - same with Bayern Munich
Rossi - famous as a cheat

Not sure we would have known anything about Pele in brazilian football in the 60's so i'll agree on him and also Geoff Hurst who is only famous for scoring a two goal hat-trick in a world cup final. ;)
 

shanker

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I disagree Stuart. Maradona is most famous for his two goals against England, one great one and the other with his hand. Didn't know Rossi was a cheat. When was this?
 

viscount17

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I don't know, go away for a few days . . .

I don't care what so-and-so did 10, 5 or 2 years ago, I want to know what he is doing now - and Owen ain't!

I'm with GB on this - give me 11 who care about playing over 11 who care about their publicists.

It's the same false argument that the 'pundits' persist in using about Leeds (and Newcastle) - the correct tense is 'were a great club'.
 

toonarmy

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I disagree Stuart. Maradona is most famous for his two goals against England, one great one and the other with his hand. Didn't know Rossi was a cheat. When was this?
Maradona is famous *in this country* for his one goal/one punch. Italians, for example, couldn't give two hoots about that - it's what he did in Serie A that they rate him for.

You're absolutely right about those old players. However, the game was completely different then and club football was always second to International for *all* players.

Is Ronaldo rich and famous for his exploits in a Portuguese shirt (what little they are)? No, for club football. And pretty much the same goes for any modern player and they don't even need to win much at club level (if anything at all).

And for the person claiming he's not interested in what Owen 'did' - presumably you didn't care about the 2 goals he scored against Russia in the penultimate qualifier?
 
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