Eng v S.A. Test Series

Lord Tyrion said:
Trescothick would hit through the ball. Jennings lets the ball hit the bat. One was pro active the other not. Tenuous comparisons between the two.
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If you watch Trescothic, he was reknown for letting the ball come to him and have a short compact punchy style that I agree is more powerful than Jennings, I could see a little in what they were saying.

Hameed is playing for lancs this week. He has been playing league cricket in the Liverpool league and has struggled there... as a lancs fan I hope they pick him and he does well....
 
pretty comfortable win in the end after a little scare earlier in the afternoon :)

good start for Roots captaincy (hes still got some to learn too) and the win has been despite the top order failing more often than not

the strength is still very clearly in the middle order batting and going forward the all rounders in the middle (stokes, ali, bairstow, woakes) will continue to provide the main strength in the team.

the bowling look ok albeit doesnt appear to be huge amounts of depth and andersen and broad cant go on forever (woakes will return and TRJ looks a decent option, Wood needs to be managed a lot better!)

that leaves the top order batting where the improvement needs to come. cook has battled well and root is world class, all the other spots are up for grabs still
 
First test in Aus?

Cook
?????
?????
Root
?????
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Squad wise you can add Wood, TRJ, Buttler and probably Rashid. That leaves 4 maybe 5 batter spots to fill, good luck working out who they are! Westley, Hameed, Stoneman, Jennings, Malan all got plenty to prove for sure
 
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fundy said:
First test in Aus?

Cook
?????
?????
Root
?????
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Squad wise you can add Wood, TRJ, Buttler and probably Rashid. That leaves 4 maybe 5 batter spots to fill, good luck working out who they are! Westley, Hameed, Stoneman, Jennings, Malan all got plenty to prove for sure
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half of the problem could be solved my Root dropping down to 3, no idea why he want to come in at 4, as he appears to pretty much be in with the first half hour anyway.

i still think the bowling lacks a bit of pace, not sure if there is anyone in CC with any sort of pace
 
patricks148 said:
half of the problem could be solved my Root dropping down to 3, no idea why he want to come in at 4, as he appears to pretty much be in with the first half hour anyway.

i still think the bowling lacks a bit of pace, not sure if there is anyone in CC with any sort of pace
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the out and out pace comes from Wood if you can get and keep him fit, should be only ever bowling in short sharp bursts and shouldnt be playing back to back tests, pretty sure there is no one else as quick in county cricket (unless you count Mills who is only fit to play T20)
 
fundy said:
the out and out pace comes from Wood if you can get and keep him fit, should be only ever bowling in short sharp bursts and shouldnt be playing back to back tests, pretty sure there is no one else as quick in county cricket (unless you count Mills who is only fit to play T20)
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but seems to struggle fitness wise, i suppose Pluncket is getting on a bit he was capable of 90MPH and Finns not been mentioned at all the whole summer so must be well out of favor.

if Woaks is fit and wood, you could just drop everyone down and then just the opening spot to fill.
 
patricks148 said:
but seems to struggle fitness wise, i suppose Pluncket is getting on a bit he was capable of 90MPH and Finns not been mentioned at all the whole summer so must be well out of favor.

if Woaks is fit and wood, you could just drop everyone down and then just the opening spot to fill.
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There are the Overton brothers at Somerset and the Curran brothers at Surrey as the up and coming youngesters!
 
patricks148 said:
but seems to struggle fitness wise, i suppose Pluncket is getting on a bit he was capable of 90MPH and Finns not been mentioned at all the whole summer so must be well out of favor.

if Woaks is fit and wood, you could just drop everyone down and then just the opening spot to fill.
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think theyre loathe to do this after starting this summer with Dawson (ie the extra bowler approach) but may find they have little choice if theyre gonna get the best side on the park. would allow them to accomodate Wood and not overbowl him (if he ever gets back to full fitness)
 
fundy said:
First test in Aus?

Cook
?????
?????
Root
?????
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Squad wise you can add Wood, TRJ, Buttler and probably Rashid. That leaves 4 maybe 5 batter spots to fill, good luck working out who they are! Westley, Hameed, Stoneman, Jennings, Malan all got plenty to prove for sure
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Cook
Stoneman or Jennings - all depends on the Windies Series
Westly - unless he has a mare in the Windies can see him going
Root
Ballance - think once fit he will get another chance further down the order
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Would also take Buttler , TRJ , Rashid , C Overton ,Robson plus one more put of Malan , Jennings , Hamed
 
Paperboy said:
There are the Overton brothers at Somerset and the Curran brothers at Surrey as the up and coming youngesters!
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Plunkett still got wheels and they could pick far worse tourists for this winter, Finn on the fringes still but not the same bowler he used to be since they remodelled his action/run up

not sure I see a test quick in the brothers, certainly not the Currans who will prob play some white ball cricket for England, certainly none of them are ready yet or would be for this winters tour imo

Sams got 14 wickets at 50 a piece in 9 games and Tom 20 at 37 a piece in 8 games

Craig Overton has 24 at 25 in 8 games, Jamie has 12 at 26 in 5 games

Maybe theyll find Jofra Archer a UK passport :)
 
I'd probably go:

Cook
Hameed
Hales
Root
Westley
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson

Hameed is back in the Lancs team and looking like making a hundred on his return (currently 77* at the end of play) so if he finds some form he could work his way in, and the form Hales is in right now and the international pedigree he has I'd bring him in, bat him at 3 and move Westley (who to me looks more like a middle order player) down to 5.
 
I would move Stokes, Bairstow and Alli up a place, bring back Woakes at 8, Rashid at 9 and Broad and Anderson. Doesn't weaken the batting to me, and see no problem with six bowlers. Just happens that two of our best batsmen can bowl. I do think Stokes will become a top batsmen, and bowl less over the years. He hardly bowled in the last test, and he wouldn't get in the team as just a bowler. Only taken just over two wickets a game in his whole England career.

I would take Plunkett as he offers something different. Can bowl quick, and gets a lot of bounce. Also useful lower order batsmen.Think he suits Australian pitches more than a skiddy bowler like Wood.

We are really short of decent batsmen though. The ones we have tried recently all seem to have obvious weaknesses, which top bowlers will pick up on. Could do with a couple of right handers as well, to break up all the lefties. Would Ian Bell have done worse than all the ones we have tried in the last two years ?
 
Dan2501 said:
I'd probably go:

Cook
Hameed
Hales
Root
Westley
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson

Hameed is back in the Lancs team and looking like making a hundred on his return (currently 77* at the end of play) so if he finds some form he could work his way in, and the form Hales is in right now and the international pedigree he has I'd bring him in, bat him at 3 and move Westley (who to me looks more like a middle order player) down to 5.
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I agree but would like to see Hameed get a run of Lancs games and have a good spell in the middle with the bat first. If he can do that I think he's a good fit. I would like to see Hales in against the West Indies and get use to playing international cricket before touring in the winter
 
The quality of bowling attacks in the County Championship really isn't as good as it used to be. You see Hammed and Hales getting racks of runs. I'm not saying they are pooor players, it may be worth giving them a go. Rich's point about Bell is a good one. He is a class act and has done it at the highest level. I know all about looking forward and not back, I'm not sure how old Bell is, but a bit of experience with him and Cook may not be a bad thing in Oz!
 
Hales has at least done it at International level as well though, unlike guys like Ballance who have failed everytime they've been given an opportunity. Slot Hales in at 3 or 5 and give him a go. At least International attacks will have a bit of fear when he walks to the crease, they won't have that with Ballance, or Malan, or Westley, or Jennings right now. Since his last Test he's continued to score big runs in ODi's/T20's and for Notts, chuck him back in.
 
Dan2501 said:
Hales has at least done it at International level as well though, unlike guys like Ballance who have failed everytime they've been given an opportunity. Slot Hales in at 3 or 5 and give him a go. At least International attacks will have a bit of fear when he walks to the crease, they won't have that with Ballance, or Malan, or Westley, or Jennings right now. Since his last Test he's continued to score big runs in ODi's/T20's and for Notts, chuck him back in.
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Big Difference in test runs than T20 and ODi Dan!
 
Oh of course, but at least he's scoring consistently good runs against International quality attacks, and doing that alongside getting runs in red-ball cricket for Notts. Same cannot be said for Jennings, Ballance or Malan.
 
Dan2501 said:
Hales has at least done it at International level as well though, unlike guys like Ballance who have failed everytime they've been given an opportunity. Slot Hales in at 3 or 5 and give him a go. At least International attacks will have a bit of fear when he walks to the crease, they won't have that with Ballance, or Malan, or Westley, or Jennings right now. Since his last Test he's continued to score big runs in ODi's/T20's and for Notts, chuck him back in.
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In his defence Ballance did get a load of runs when he fisrt played for England. Four tons and averaged somewhere round 60 in his first 17 tests. Unfortunately since then his poor technique has been found out, and not sure he has sorted it out yet.


Can't remember a period when we have had so few decent batsmen coming through. If you look at Jennings, Westley, Hales and Malan's county records they are not great. Averaging mid 30's, when the majority of England batsmen over the last twenty years have been averaging well into the 40's. Bell, Pietersen, Strauss, Cook, Root, Bairstow etc. There are very few English batsmen around with decent county records, so probably why they struggle at test level.
 
IanM said:
Indeed - certainly Jennings, Westley, Hales and Malan have all yet to convince they have what it takes to go to Australia and do well in an Ashes Series.... but confidence is contagious... one good innings can make a career!
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If they don't score runs against the Windies, they are not going to score many down under. To be fair the pitches have not been great for batting against South Africa, and only Root got a load of runs. South African attack was pretty good, definitely their strength. It was the obvious faults in technique that was worrying, and trying to change in mid test is unlikely to work. How do batsmen get to mid/late 20's and not get picked up on their faults. Someone like Bairstow had problems when he first played, but he was much younger and able to sort it out through hard work over a decent period.
 
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