Early Extension

[Airlie_Andy]

After watching a recent Mark Crossfield video about early extension he mentions that one of his pupils had been trying to get rid of his early extension for over 2 years! Is this typical? I've only just become aware of it in my own swing and obviously it's something I want to stop. So I guess my questions are;

1. How long did it take for you to overcome the problem?

And

2. What "drill" really helped you?

I've seen a few drills etc on YouTube but I'm after first hand experience from people that have actually had success.

 

[JustOne]

Not a great fan of that vid to be honest as I don't believe it's a balance issue per se (rather just some bad moves that RESULT in a balance issue) and the swing requires a weight shift which is unlikely performed whilst standing on two rubber bubbles.

It is something that I used to suffer from with my old swing off the back foot... it's feasible that I still do, I haven't video'd myself in a while and don't really hit enough balls to know for sure that it's fixed... however, this is the video that best explained it to me.... it's a bit of a waffle but made perfect sense....

[video=youtube;jUQmjdywsio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQmjdywsio[/video]

 

[timchump]

I watched the same video, found it interesting so had a look at myself for early extension, i don't seem do it with the irons but do, or at least stand up more at impact with the driver.

Then i found these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90l5W-au9ME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NmtlfTtIQ

Which contradicts Mark Crossfield a bit i think?

Every pro seems to loose their spine angle a bit at impact...

They suggest either rein the driver in at impact counter acting the centrifugal forces but risk getting the yips or adopt a bizaire set up posture

Now i don't know what to think

Very interesting nonetheless

 

[timchump]

I watched the same video, found it interesting so had a look at myself for early extension, i don't seem do it with the irons but do, or at least stand up more at impact with the driver.

Then i found these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90l5W-au9ME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NmtlfTtIQ

Which contradicts Mark Crossfield a bit i think?

Every pro seems to loose their spine angle at impact...

They suggest either rein the driver in at impact counter acting the centrifugal forces but risk getting the yips in later life, or adopt a bizaire set up posture

Now i don't know what to think

Very interesting none the less

 

[JustOne]

^
^
^
I've seen those vids before and don't believe a word of it, they would have you believe you can turn your shoulders 360 degrees if they could - it's a sales pitch and nothing more in their case.... although sequencing your swing is the right idea.

 

[timchump]

haha yep i don't undertand why their player hasn't one the open yet?

but i think they raise some interesting points about spine angles, it makes sense from slow motions replays ive seen, and the talk on here of raising the hips/standing up through impact.

Though doesn't this condradict the idea of early extension and losing spine angle

Thats the point im badly trying to make

 

[JustOne]

If you 'early extend' your shoulders tend to raise/back away from the ball and your butt subsequently gets closer as it has to... then you get stuck or steep handed and loads of other rubbish happens. The phrase 'early extend' is all about 'standing up' during your swing and losing your spine angle

However the OTHER term 'extension' is all about pushing off from the ground and not so much about the standing up part... so similar terms but different things. If you get your extension right with your legs you don't really lose your spine angle as your shoulders are still turning downwards towards the ball.

I think both terms should have completely different names but confusion is part of learning golf!!!

 

[timchump]

Yep that makes sense, the early extension in mark crossfield video is more along lines of the bum moving closer to the ball.

Which the pro's don't suffer from.
But i do think they lose a bit of spine angle with the driver?

My understanding from that Somax video and slo mo replays
The forces acting on the driver head through impact, pulls their arms out towards the ball so they have to reduce their spine angle at impact a bit, pull away from the ball, to compensate, in order to hit the ball... isn't that part early extension?

 

[JustOne]

But i do think they lose a bit of spine angle with the driver?

My understanding from that Somax video and slo mo replays
The forces acting on the driver head through impact, pulls their arms out towards the ball so they have to reduce their spine angle at impact a bit, pull away from the ball, to compensate, in order to hit the ball... isn't that part early extension?

Yes, and I would (sort of) agree - that said there's more to take into consideration as to what the causes are at that level, eg pulling down too hard, too far inside, the intended shot, set up, the lesser shoulder plane with a driver, etc etc.

I would say that in my opinion the majority of golfers (even pros) don't get into their side tilt quick enough with a driver (right shoulder turning downwards as per the video I posed above) which is why there's some early extension there... and subsequently they block a lot of shots to the right (more than hooks which in reality you don't see that many).

 

[timchump]

thanks

reason i mentioned, is i maintain good spine angle with irons but lose it abit with the driver.

the mark crossfield video made me think i might need work on this early extension thing at some point in the future

however, looking at lots of slow motion replays, there doesn't seem to be any pro who can maintain their spine angle when hitting a driver.....

 

[JustOne]

Just a guess....

[video=youtube;4Ho7Q3-nkzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ho7Q3-nkzQ[/video]

 

[timchump]

haha i was waiting for that

i knew you would know....

i guess he is better at getting the right shoulder down as per your video....?


here the ones ive looked at that "lose it"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcaZWuLjuSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ6HgzcER0E

theres loads more i have seen

edit - i think lose it

 

[JustOne]

haha i was waiting for that

Ha!!! And I knew you were going to post Ernie Els!!!!!


You ask what Mahan does better.... well as per the video I initially posted (do I have to keep mentioning it? LOLOLOL) he gets his right shoulder more in front of him, more down and more forwards... in other words he turns his right shoulder down to the ball more.. Ernie doesn't and in fact also throws the club at the ball a little (right arm extends fully)

Here's Davis Toms side by side with Ernie Els (forget the lines drawn on Toms), Toms also doesn't early extend... can you see the difference with Toms' right shoulder being more down and in front of him? [click pic to enlarge it)



...and the similarities between Toms' right shoulder position and Mahan's in the video of him above?

 

[timchump]

damn you picked up on my editing

i realised you already mentioned the right shoulder problem, solution after posting , i need to pay attention more

thanks for the explanations, really helpful
im going to have a think, see if i can try and integrate a better shoulder turn into my own effort :fore:

 

[JustOne]

In an effort to hit the ball out to the right people hang back with the right shoulder (some a lot, some a little) and don't get it down to the ball...this causes the early extension. It's not easy to fix.......fear of hooking... just read Amanda's thread below on 'flat swings' where she talks about having to keep her right shoulder back (on post #14).....



Enough from me... don't want an argument

 

[bobmac]

Just a guess....

[video=youtube;4Ho7Q3-nkzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ho7Q3-nkzQ[/video]

James, you say you like that swing?

 

[Foxholer]

James, you say you like that swing?

Can I train to be his Chiropractor in a few years?

About the same time Rory will start to need one if he doesn't change his swing slightly too!

 

[JustOne]

James, you say you like that swing?

I do like Mahan's swing very much Bob, not necessarily that one though

Can I train to be his Chiropractor in a few years?

Why's that?... you think there's something wrong? What?