Drop zone

[backwoodsman]

Your advice please, on a proposal at our place, to install a drop zone on 16th.

Situation is that the green has water hazard (red) close down the left side. Also has bunker front right. Behind the green, crossing left to right, is a path and its only a few yards off the green. Behind the path is a narrow (ish) strip of "cabbage", - again just a few yards deep - and then its the boundary fence.

It's bad cabbage, so if you're in it, it's unplayable unless you are a true miracle worker. If you take relief for an unplayable ball, your options are limited. Cabbage stretches left & right so the 2 CL option won't really help. Neither will the " back on a line" option because of bounary fence. Unless you want to be hacking away until Christmas, you are pretty much limited to taking stroke & distance.

So, the questions are a) is it reasonable or justifiable under the rules to have a drop zone? b) is it necessary to define the area within which the ball must lie for the DZ to be available? (If so, how?) And the real clincher, c) is it possible to limit the use of the DZ only to shots played from a certain location?

(Proposal is that DZ is only used for shots thinned from the greenside bunker! Strange idea, l know. I can see a pace of play benefit of a DZ when an over-long 2nd shot is involved, but the bunker thing is just bizarre).

Thanks for reading this far - and appreciate your thoughts

 

[rulefan]

a) is it reasonable or justifiable under the rules to have a drop zone?

Yes

b) is it necessary to define the area within which the ball must lie for the DZ to be available? (If so, how?)

Below is a modified Local Rule I have introduced at my club. We have two dropping zones, one to each side. You may wish to indicate the limits of the area by marking the fence.

In order to reduce the wear and tear on any DZs we use blue stakes which are moved (with some effort) by the greenstaff as and when required.

Any ball which lies in the area between the path and the Out of Bounds fence behind the X[SUP]th[/SUP] green and is deemed to be unplayable, may be dropped, with a one stroke penalty, in the nearest dropping zone.
The ball must be dropped within two club lengths of the post indicating the dropping zone.

c) is it possible to limit the use of the DZ only to shots played from a certain location?

IMO, no. But I can't quote a ruling.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yes


Below is a modified Local Rule I have introduced at my club. We have two dropping zones, one to each side. You may wish to indicate the limits of the area by marking the fence.

In order to reduce the wear and tear on any DZs we use blue stakes which are moved (with some effort) by the greenstaff as and when required.

Any ball which lies in the area between the path and the Out of Bounds fence behind the X[SUP]th[/SUP] green and is deemed to be unplayable, may be dropped, with a one stroke penalty, in the nearest dropping zone.
The ball must be dropped within two club lengths of the post indicating the dropping zone.



IMO, no. But I can't quote a ruling.

Can you point me to the rule/decision that allows a drop zone to be established for a ball that a player has deemed to be unplayable.

 

[Colin L]

Can you point me to the rule/decision that allows a drop zone to be established for a ball that a player has deemed to be unplayable.

Appendix 1 Part A

6. Dropping Zones
The Committee may establish dropping zones on which balls may or must be dropped when the Committee considers that it is not feasible or practicable to proceed exactly in conformity with Rule 24-2b or Rule 24-3 (Immovable Obstruction), Rule 25-1b or 25-1c (Abnormal Ground Conditions), 25-3 (Wrong Putting Green), Rule 26-1 (Water Hazards and Lateral Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).


[My bold type]

 

[doublebogey7]

Appendix 1 Part A

6. Dropping Zones
The Committee may establish dropping zones on which balls may or must be dropped when the Committee considers that it is not feasible or practicable to proceed exactly in conformity with Rule 24-2b or Rule 24-3 (Immovable Obstruction), Rule 25-1b or 25-1c (Abnormal Ground Conditions), 25-3 (Wrong Putting Green), Rule 26-1 (Water Hazards and Lateral Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).


[My bold type]

Thanks Colin

 

[clubchamp98]

Could you not just make the bad cabbage part of the lateral hazard you just find your nearest point of relief then .

 

[jim8flog]

I wish I could find the Decision to quote it.

Worth noting if taking relief from the path.

A club is not allowed to create a drop zone to avoid a player having to drop in an area of severe rough when taking relief from an obstruction etc if the area meets the requirements for nearest point of relief.

Twice in recent years I have had to get the committee to remove drop zones so created after pointing out this decision.

It could of course be that the Decision has been removed form the book in the past year.

I must admit I had never realised it was possible to create a drop zone for ball unplayable. Worth noting for one of our holes.

 

[rulefan]

Could you not just make the bad cabbage part of the lateral hazard you just find your nearest point of relief then .

The lateral water hazard is to the side and presumably has water in it. The 'bad cabbage' is at the back of the green and presumably doesn't have water in it.

If it was legitimately part of the LWH, the relief would not be nearest point of relief.
The player could go back to where he played from, play from the far side of the LWH from the hole or drop within 2cl not nearer the hole. The latter two the OP has already told us are not viable.
In effect, the LWH relief is much the same as unplayable - ie not practicable except for S&D

 

[jim8flog]

Question.

If the reason for needing take an 'unplayable' is due to an OB fence is it still permissible to create a dropzone?

 

[duncan mackie]

Just cut the cabbage.

 

[Colin L]

Question.

If the reason for needing take an 'unplayable' is due to an OB fence is it still permissible to create a dropzone?

Yes.

 

[clubchamp98]

The lateral water hazard is to the side and presumably has water in it. The 'bad cabbage' is at the back of the green and presumably doesn't have water in it.

If it was legitimately part of the LWH, the relief would not be nearest point of relief.
The player could go back to where he played from, play from the far side of the LWH from the hole or drop within 2cl not nearer the hole. The latter two the OP has already told us are not viable.
In effect, the LWH relief is much the same as unplayable - ie not practicable except for S&D

Yes I get that but any lateral water hazard Dosnt have to have water in it all the time, and there must be a nearest point of relief somewhere on the golf course.

Isnt that why it's deemed lateral as you can drop either side as long as it's not nearer the hole.

It would prob solve the issue if you they cut the cabbage down now and again to manageable levels.

 

[rulefan]

Yes I get that but any lateral water hazard Dosnt have to have water in it all the time, and there must be a nearest point of relief somewhere on the golf course.

Isnt that why it's deemed lateral as you can drop either side as long as it's not nearer the hole.

It would prob solve the issue if you they cut the cabbage down now and again to manageable levels.

But it does have to have some, some of the time.

Not quite. It has to be within 2cl of the point of entry not nearer the hole.

It is not the same as the relief from GUR or Immovable Obstructions.

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

 

[rulefan]

Question.

If the reason for needing take an 'unplayable' is due to an OB fence is it still permissible to create a dropzone?

Yes. In fact the LR I mentioned above was specifically for that purpose. An OB fence behind a blind green.

 

[backwoodsman]

Thanks all.

For info, the lateral hazard is not really relevant to the "cabbage". Was just to help describe the hole.

As to cutting it, one could, but its the sort of stuff that grows really quick.And its not really the kind of location that you want short stuff anyway.

I have no issue with a DZ per se, but it was the bit about it only being available for shots out of the bunker that had me intrigued.

 

[Colin L]

I wish I could find the Decision to quote it.

Worth noting if taking relief from the path.

A club is not allowed to create a drop zone to avoid a player having to drop in an area of severe rough when taking relief from an obstruction etc if the area meets the requirements for nearest point of relief....

Are you thinking of D33-8/19?
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-33,d33-8-19

Regarding a local rule limiting the use of the DZ to shots from the bunker, I agree with rulefan that this would not be permissible. The nearest Decision I can think of is 33-8/20
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-33,d33-8-20

 

[rulefan]

I must admit I had never realised it was possible to create a drop zone for ball unplayable. Worth noting for one of our holes.

Of course it has to satisfy the requirement - " ...it is not feasible or practicable to proceed exactly in conformity with Rule 28 et al"

 

[jim8flog]

Noted.

We have a par 3 hole of 229 yards with a diagonal out of bounds fence running close to it, with some pin positions it is impossible to drop as required.

The return trip to where the tee is so off putting to most (very steep up hill climb) that we often have NRs on this hole.

 

[backwoodsman]

Thanks again for responses. Especially rulefan's suggestion of wording for the local rule. I will be talking to H&C committee chairman to see if the proposal genuinely is about providing a DZ solely for ball having been played out of the bunker. And put them right.

If it is a DZ based on proper principles, then I'll suggest the "post" method of demarcation.

 

[jim8flog]

Are you thinking of D33-8/19?
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-33,d33-8-19

Yes that was the one. Thanks