Driving distances

[Hobbit]

Having a chat over a few beers we got on about is it actually achievable to buy a driver that makes a significant difference to driving distance. No doubt someone cleverer will be along to help but here goes...

Force = Mass X Acceleration

If a golfer has been playing for a while his swingspeed is going to be fairly consistent, therefore the only real change there would be a whippier shaft. But there are limitations there as to what will actually 'work' for a particular swingspeed. And if the weight of drivers is fairly consistent... So Mass and Acceleration don't exactly change a huge amount, therefore the Force applied to the ball isn't really going to change much.

If the above is correct, and you have a driver that goes a decent distance is it worth believing the hype that manufacturers continually spout? Once a player has been measured up, has the optimal shaft and loft is it really possible to see a significant improvement by buying the next new thing?

So, maybe, once you've been custom fitted properly the next £200+ you're thinking of spending on the next new thing would be better spent on improving the swing. But maybe I'm wrong...

 

[Monty_Brown]

I guess finding the sweetspot more often would increase average distance, so clubhead design has an effect, but maybe not maximum distance.

The right shaft, with optimised torque and kickpoints for your swing would also maximise the delivery of your power as well. So I suppose yes, the right club can make a difference. I doubt its what the manufacturers cliam though.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Having a chat over a few beers we got on about is it actually achievable to buy a driver that makes a significant difference to driving distance. No doubt someone cleverer will be along to help but here goes...

Force = Mass X Acceleration

...

Good thinking on the equatic side of things, however try this equation too.....

Desire x (Gullability+Company Marketing) = Expensive new driver.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

I don't use a driver as I hit my 7 iron 250 yards anyway.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It's not just about force though, you have to take other factors such as spin rate into account.

 

[Monty_Brown]

If you proved that new drivers were pointless, most of us would go into a period of mourning.

 

[timchump]

i think its the smash factor that manufactures are looking to improve,

id think in the above equation the smash factor is 1, but developing better clubs, and balls that compress well ups the smash factor and distance.

for example the taylormade RBZ with the increased flexibility of the front face i would guess has improved smash factor over last years models

 

[bluewolf]

Not listening, Not listening, Not listening, Not listening, Not listening, Not listening, Not listening...........

 

[StrangelyBrown]

I think its the smash factor that manufactures are looking to improve

Or they just make the shaft longer.

 

[Hobbit]

It's not just about force though, you have to take other factors such as spin rate into account.

You're right, spin will make a difference, as will applying the Force down the target line as opposed to a glancing blow. But as posted earlier, if someone has already been measured up and got the optimal driver for them, a new supadopa one will make, say, 2-3yds difference at best. As posted by ArnoldArmChewer, are we just guilty of gullability and falling for the "planned obsolecence" that some manufacturers appear to use - the white one goes further.

If you proved that new drivers were pointless, most of us would go into a period of mourning.

You can borrow my 35 yr old Titliest Persimmon driver. If you're hitting it out of the middle it goes as far as anything out today - finding the middle of something the size of a matchbox is a bit difficult tho.'

 

[Hobbit]

i think its the smash factor that manufactures are looking to improve,

id think in the above equation the smash factor is 1, but developing better clubs, and balls that compress well ups the smash factor and distance.

for example the taylormade RBZ with the increased flexibility of the front face i would guess has improved smash factor over last years models

But the question that then springs to mind is does the new ball go 10yds longer, i.e. mean you hit a lesser club into the green, or is the difference less than one club in which case is it worth it? Is it marketing hype or is it a significant improvement?

 

[SGC001]

Now the C.O.R is limited at .83 (I think they measure characteristic time now, but it's a time that gives a C.O.R of .83) it's about optimising the driver for your swing. Particualry it's speed, angle of attack and effective loft of your driver. If you hit it on centre you want to optimise the launch angle and spin rate of the ball. They are usually looking for a good carry and don't want too much run as they argue you sort of lose control of the ball (you cna get fitted for what you want). Other factors can come into play for fitting a driver, but this is a basic way to look at distance and that is why you need to look further than F=ma and into the ballistics of impact.

Basically at impact the kinetic energy is transferred. Some dissipates at impact (heat, sound etc: ) some goes to give the ball it's flight (about 83% due to the COR limit). That kinetic energy can be thought of horizontal ball speed, vertical ball speed and spin. Too much spin and you lose some velocity, too little and it doesn't fly. This is what they are optimising in relation to the launch angle. Due to the way this works loft often helps people with slower swing speeds.

It also leads onto ball fitting, although you could easily prefer to fit the ball on around the green performance.

Edit: some new posts have suggested that old persimmon drivers will go as far. It is unlikely as the COR of 0.83 is partly achieved through the face flexing more so the ball deforms less, this would not occur to the same extent with the old wooden clubs. In addition the COR of 0.83 has been achievable for a while in drivers so whilst that can't be improved they can muck around with things to affect spin and launch. This may mean you hit this years model further, it may not as it is an optimisable characteristic and will depend on your strike.

If your swing changes you may need to change. i suffered an injury which took 10% of my clubhead speed and altered my launch angle. I started struggling with my driver. I went and got fitted and my spin rate had dropped markedly as had my speed. The spin lowered more than the drop off in speed would suggest on it's own and suggested my angle of attack had altered due to the injury. I went from low spin shafts extra stiff shafts to softer higher spinning shafts and more recommended loft (same as I had as preferred to work the ball and went for higher loft than recommended the last time) with no change in clubhead speed my carry improved by 30 yards. Total distance was actually down a little, but I could now work the ball again.

 

[Mattyboy]

All TM seemed to do last year was to paint their drivers white! I am no physician but my guess is that this dosnt increase distance. So I reckon they have reached a point where they cant get any more (currently) out of a driver distance wise.

 

[timchump]

But the question that then springs to mind is does the new ball go 10yds longer, i.e. mean you hit a lesser club into the green, or is the difference less than one club in which case is it worth it? Is it marketing hype or is it a significant improvement?

i guess thats for the individual player to decide.

when i went to see my parents in france this year i used my dad's adams driver from circa 2002, i didn't notice any difference in distance from the tm superfast i had at the time.

i do like buying a nice new shiny driver, though i don't get a new one every year

p.s. i think the current distance the pros hit it compared to yester year does prove that technology has helped distance significantly over time

 

[USER1999]

i guess thats for the individual player to decide.

when i went to see my parents in france this year i used my dad's adams driver from circa 2002, i didn't notice any difference in distance from the tm superfast i had at the time.

i do like buying a nice new shiny driver, though i don't get a new one every year

p.s. i think the current distance the pros hit it compared to yester year does prove that technology has helped distance significantly over time

I would suggest a lot of that comes from computerised swing analysis, and more modern training methods. I was reading about an American kid who had upped his carry from 300 to just short of 400 yards, and how they had trained him to achieve this. He might not be able to walk by the time he is 40, but he will be able to afford a platinum wheel chair to ride in.

 

[DaveM]

One thing that has to be remembered in all this is. There are laws set down as to drivers and balls in the rules of golf. So they can only go so far in the development of both. If there where no rules then yes/most likely new balls/drivers could be made to go longer. But as it stands I have to say no.

 

[timchump]

i think its a mixtutre of everything to be honest, i would be very surprised if new equipment hasn't helped distance though, i think balls maybe a bigger factor than the clubs.

i guess the only way to test would be with an iron byron comparing something like a permisson driver and an old balata ball to a fancy TM driver and pro v

 

[USER1999]

i think its a mixtutre of everything to be honest, i would be very surprised if new equipment hasn't helped distance though, i think balls maybe a bigger factor than the clubs.

i guess the only way to test would be with an iron byron comparing something like a permisson driver and an old balata ball to a fancy TM driver and pro v

Sure, advances in drivers and balls from last year might add a few yards, ten at most, but this kid has added 100 yards of carry, from an already impressive starting point. That is way more return for the development invested. Trick is, it is of no use to the average golfer, so they want us to believe it is the kit.

 

[Monty_Brown]

I was reading about an American kid who had upped his carry from 300 to just short of 400 yards, and how they had trained him to achieve this. He might not be able to walk by the time he is 40, but he will be able to afford a platinum wheel chair to ride in.

I'd be interested to have a look at that... is it online?

 

[daymond]

I understand the centre of gravity of clubs is now 4" below the ground or am I being cynical?