Double hit?

[RulesGuy]

You putt, the ball hits the flag back onto your putter face and goes into the hole. Apparently happened today in a friendly knock. Any thoughts?

 

[rulefan]

I can't see any reason why 11.1 shouldn't apply. IMO no penalty, ball is holed

 

[ScienceBoy]

You putt, the ball hits the flag back onto your putter face and goes into the hole. Apparently happened today in a friendly knock. Any thoughts?

Great example for when you are unsure. Mark it down as holed but take it to get a ruling after the round. If applicable then can be applied before signing.

Its really important not just to know the rules but what to do when you are not sure about a rule!

 

[duncan mackie]

I agree with Rulefan unless there was a secondary stroke involved.

These are never marginal - however disguised they are blindly obvious. It's like comedy timing, or close up magic, it takes years of practice to make something look natural, and no one is out practicing that one!

 

[Colin L]

No argument the ball is holed provided that the ball rebounded on to the putter in the course of the follow through i.e. during the single continuous action of the swing.

 

[rulefan]

Colin

What if the club had been stationery at the time of impact?

 

[Colin L]

I hoped nobody would ask that sort of awkward question but without great optimism.

I don't suppose you'll be satisfied with "Good question" in reply, but that's the best you're getting for the moment. If the ball hit the player, then the stroke is cancelled. But hitting his club? Is that part of him or a movable obstruction or what? I'm looking for a reason for cancelling the stroke.

By the way, I meant above by "No argument" that there was no argument for me rather than that there is no argument. Someone might come up with one.

 

[chrisd]

Colin

What if the club had been stationery at the time of impact?

I've double hit a sand iron in the past where the club has been stationery at the time of the second impact, where i've got to the end of the swing and the ball has hit the club. So I'd stick with Colins answer personally. If no attempt at a 2nd hit is made then I reckon it's now no penalty

 

[rulefan]

If no attempt at a 2nd hit is made then I reckon it's now no penalty

That is the nub of it

 

[Colin L]

I've double hit a sand iron in the past where the club has been stationery at the time of the second impact, where i've got to the end of the swing and the ball has hit the club. So I'd stick with Colins answer personally. If no attempt at a 2nd hit is made then I reckon it's now no penalty

I'm struggling to see how that is possible.

 

[chrisd]

I'm struggling to see how that is possible.

I swung through very quick, the ball went up high but barely forward and on it's way down it hit the blade

 

[rulie]

I swung through very quick, the ball went up high but barely forward and on it's way down it hit the blade

Imo, that wasn't a double-hit, but the ball struck you or your equipment. Before this year, that would have resulted in a penalty.

 

[rulefan]

1) If the ball hit the player, then the stroke is cancelled.

2) But hitting his club? Is that part of him or a movable obstruction or what? I'm looking for a reason for cancelling the stroke.

1) ?

2) 11.1a bullet 2

 

[Colin L]

1) 11.1b Exception 2.

2) That just tells us there is no penalty . It doesn't help with how to proceed if the ball bounces back off the flagstick, hits your club (not as a double hit) and goes into the hole. Exception 2 does not mention a ball hitting equipment but doesn't normally need to as any of your equipment lying around is a movable obstruction. You need to take a club in your hand as being a movable obstruction to support cancelling the stroke. Which I think is probably reasonable.

 

[backwoodsman]

1) 11.1b Exception 2.

2) That just tells us there is no penalty . It doesn't help with how to proceed if the ball bounces back off the flagstick, hits your club (not as a double hit) and goes into the hole. Exception 2 does not mention a ball hitting equipment but doesn't normally need to as any of your equipment lying around is a movable obstruction. You need to take a club in your hand as being a movable obstruction to support cancelling the stroke. Which I think is probably reasonable.

My view is there's not much (or no?) doubt about it?

Exception 2 applies to movable obstructions; definition of obstruction includes "player equipment"; and equipment includes "anything worn or carried by a player" l don't see how a club in a players hand doesn't fit the bill?

 

[RulesGuy]

Thanks all. The Preamble called 'Purpose' is pretty clear: 'accidental, hits person equipment or anything else, no penalty, normally accept the result good or bad' I can't see any reason why 11.1.a shouldn't apply. Thanks ScienceBoy for reminding me of rule 20 alas I am the fountain of knowledge the members come to for a ruling

.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks all. The Preamble called 'Purpose' is pretty clear: 'accidental, hits person equipment or anything else, no penalty, normally accept the result good or bad' I can't see any reason why 11.1.a shouldn't apply. Thanks ScienceBoy for reminding me of rule 20 alas I am the fountain of knowledge the members come to for a ruling

.

Although of course 20.1.c goes a little further than suggested in post #3...you would also want to replay the shot at the time in medal play, or risk a greater penalty (although in this case there shouldn't be any issues in that regard from the correct ruling)