Discuss

[CrapHacker]

Pros aren't that much better than us.

Obviously they are, or they wouldn't be making millions when we're struggling to pay the membership.

And ok they can hit it miles further than us ( How DO they do that btw ?) A 5I 210 yds seems excessive round a perfectly normal track.

And their putting is generally pretty good, too.

But they don't seem to be much straighter than us. Wedges in bunkers. 5I missing the green by at least 40 yds. Well I can do that, you know.

Logically I'd expect a good tour pro to be a little longer than normality, but the difference would show in his iron accuracy ( They do practice a tad more than us, in case you're not sure ). Not the other way round.

If you could stick me 6I from the green, and shove them 60 yds behind me, I'm sure I'd get on the green almost as often as them.

 

[Smiffy]

It's the pro's ability to shape the ball and play out of almost impossible lies that are the biggest differences (well apart from the distance they hit the ball) from the likes of a reasonably proficient amateur golfer.
I was watching the Open at Royal Lytham a few years ago, par 5 and one of the players (can't remember who it was now) missed the fairway and his ball landed in the bottom of a small gorse bush. My mate and I were standing by the bush when the pro got to it, and the lie was awful. I guarantee that if any one of us were playing that ball we would have declared it unplayable and taken our medicine. We would have then been congratulated by our playing partners for finally making the green and scoring either a 6 or 7 after taking a drop.
The pro spent what seemed an age discussing it with his caddy before pulling out a 5 iron, couple of practice swings and then gave it a belt. It came out like an exocet missile, and bounced about 180 yards or more up the fairway. He then proceeded to knock it on the green and can the putt for birdie. We couldn't believe he even got it out of the bush, let alone walked off the green with a 4!
It was a stark reminder as to why these guys are looked on as "Gods" compared to us hackers.

 

[Parmo]

I think its not a case of just getting it on the green on a par 4 its their turn over of birdies from where they hit the green.

 

[KeefG]

Come on Mr Hacker, own up....have you been on the sauce all night and just got in at 6am and decided to frequent the board and post some rubbish?

I'd say its their length and the accuracy coupled with said length that makes them stand head & shoulders above us mere mortals.

I think it was the US PGA last year at Oakland that had a very long par 3, I think for the Saturday it was something like 303yds ish, how many of "us" do you think would be on the green from the tee? Not bloody many....admittedly a fair few of the pro's didnt make it either but thats because they wanted to make sure they werent long due to the hazard at the back. An awful lot were on the green though, and thats the difference right there.

But its these long & accurate hitters that are shotting themselves in the foot, because the longer they hit the ball and hit the target, the longer the courses are becoming, and then they have to hit the ball further, so the courses are getting longer, repeat ad infinitum!!

 

[JustOne]

The reasons pros are so good is their ability to get the ball up and down from anywhere within 150yds. On a regular basis they will find the green and make the putt.

They also often have squads of people looking for their drives so they feel comfortable that they can simply rip it off the tee.

They also have perfect greens most of the time so 10 footers become a bit easier when you know the roll will be true.

They also play one shot at a time, rarely do they compound errors. A bad drive normally leads to a good recovery - rather than topping a 3-wood, blocking an iron into a bunker, thinning it across the green and three putts

When you watch golf on TV you are seeing the top pros in the world and even then you are only seeing the ones that are playing well on that particular day, do you see coverage of the guy that shoots 2-over? hardly.

 

[RGDave]

If you could stick me 6I from the green, and shove them 60 yds behind me, I'm sure I'd get on the green almost as often as them.

Steady on......

 

[Herbie]

Apart from the special qualities of some, the major difference I think is purely, consistant ball striking, excelent course management, self belief and consistant putting. I dont think the distances they are hitting now have a huge impact on their skill or score level overall.

To score like a pro I only have to play like I played 7 holes a couple of weeks ago(3 birdies, two of them back to back and 4 pars that were only ever going to be par or better), trouble is the other 11 holes were more like me and a high h/capper

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree that there ball striking and distance generated is a huge plus but for me its the ability from 100 yards and in to get down in two more often than not that is the main division between + and single figure club golfers and even Europro tour guys.

I also think the ability to work with decent coaches on top notch parctice facilities every day may have a lot to do with it. If you can hone the technique to that degree and have the courage to stick with it in the fire of competition then you'll have a decent career.

 

[CrapHacker]

When you watch golf on TV you are seeing the top pros in the world and even then you are only seeing the ones that are playing well on that particular day, do you see coverage of the guy that shoots 2-over? hardly.

Exactly. The guy that is missing the fairway with his drives. Or missing the green with his 5 iron.

Not talking about the top 10, but those guys around the 90 - 100 sort of positions.

Of course they can handle the pressure better than us ( having said that how many of us would love to find out quite what we could do under similar strain. )

And they can chip LOADS better than us. But again, how good could we be if we had 6 hours a day to practise, and the best coaches at our beck and call.

But it's the distance that gets me time and again. I just don't believe, no matter who coached me, for however long a day, I could ever get within a reasonable % of them.

Take that weapon away from them, and I bet you could find a few guys here that would not be a million miles behind. ( Not me btw - THAT suggestion was pure fantasy )

 

[SammmeBee]

Pros aren't that much better than us.

Obviously they are, or they wouldn't be making millions when we're struggling to pay the membership.

And ok they can hit it miles further than us ( How DO they do that btw ?) A 5I 210 yds seems excessive round a perfectly normal track.

And their putting is generally pretty good, too.

But they don't seem to be much straighter than us. Wedges in bunkers. 5I missing the green by at least 40 yds. Well I can do that, you know.

Logically I'd expect a good tour pro to be a little longer than normality, but the difference would show in his iron accuracy ( They do practice a tad more than us, in case you're not sure ). Not the other way round.

If you could stick me 6I from the green, and shove them 60 yds behind me, I'm sure I'd get on the green almost as often as them.

Oh dear....you really need to play with some 'good' players to see how wrong you really are.....

 

[ev123uk]

I remember watching at the Forest of ASrdena few years back now and two shots in particular spelled out the difference to me. One was Peter Baker playing his second on the 10th from behind the oak tree on the right. Not sure what club he hit but the first 40 yards were 15 feet off the ground under the overhanging branches before rising steeply and dropping like a bag of sugar next to te pin...awesome.

2nd one was Goosen (before he started winning majors) on the par 3 5th. He missed the geen left and his ball landed right in front of us about 2 feet behind a tree trunk. To us he looked completley stymied...he pulled a wedge and to this day i dont know how he did it but some how imparted around a yard of draw on a 15 yard chip out of rough to leave him a 5 footer for par.

Im sure i've seen others but those stick in the mind as examples of shots we wouldnt even contemplate as amateurs.

 

[RGDave]

Oh dear....you really need to play with some 'good' players to see how wrong you really are.....

I wonder if your shot at Tony's place (the guided missile over the bunker on the S.I. 1) would have been an education
for any of us thinking we were half-way decent!!!

I still remember it.......and you don't play of +8!!!

 

[SammmeBee]

Thanks Dave but I actually meant 'good' players....ie the ones who are much better than me...

The OP actually doesn't even warrant a discussion really...

 

[RGDave]

Thanks Dave but I actually meant 'good' players....ie the ones who are much better than me...

I know, my point being is that you can do stuff like that and pros do it even more often!

 

[theeaglehunter]

The OP actually doesn't even warrant a discussion really...

See on the basis of all the previous tournaments I have seen on the TV, in addition to playing with a +1 handicapper for a round (the best I have ever played with) as well as what I saw at Wentworth and the Belfry in 2008 I would completely agree with you.

However...

I was at the latter course for the final days play this year and could not believe that I witnessed from Pro's shots that I would be disappointed with. Normally even when a pro hits a bad one I think, cohhhh I'd take that 300 yards down the fairway second cut of rough much better than my ball in the trees 240 yards down, or something similar. Today though I saw 5...yes 5 shots that I would have been frustrated with. I know that is a tiny amount from the well over 100 shots I saw but it is still a huge figure compared to what I had previously experienced. One example would be of Andres Romero catching the ball out of the very heel of his driver on the 6th hole. The ball went straight left low, and ended up about 180 yards down in the cabbage. IT was just an awful strike. There were other occasion too, on the 3rd hole somebody (I can't remember who) was face with a simple pitch into the green having had to lay up from the bunker and made a complete hash of it. There were other times as well when I really did think Wow, they really are human!

I do however believe my state of shock at seeing these shots is in fact testament to the fact that in general the pros are sooooo much better than us. If a member of my fourball played a shot like above I wouldn't bat an eyelid, however the fact that I was stone cold shocked at these shots shows how you just don't expect it from someone who is usually so good. It also goes down to what JOUK said about not letting bad shots stack up on you by playing a god shot after a poor one. Romero did in fact escape his terrible lie and got the ball up close to the green leaving a fairly simple looking chip / putt (I don't know whether he made it or not). I would have no doubt got frustrated and hit it in the rough the other side of the fairway or something silly.

There were definitely times today where I thought, hey I could do this. But in reality when you see the pros up close hitting arrowed drive after arrowed drive on the practice ground you realise they are a different breed.

 

[mono217]

Pro v Me










Winner Pro 10&8 and I got 2 shots a hole

 

[CrapHacker]

Thanks Dave but I actually meant 'good' players....ie the ones who are much better than me...

The OP actually doesn't even warrant a discussion really...

So where are the main differences then, in your opinion. ?

Is it a physical difference ?

Or just a mental capacity ?

How much of the difference can be overcome with practise ?

Is it even worth watching them from an improvement point of view, or should we just accept it as entertainment, and try to pick up points for improvement from the women pros - coz at least they are on the same planet as us, even if they're in a different hemisphere ?

Etc etc

 

[SammmeBee]

Thanks Dave but I actually meant 'good' players....ie the ones who are much better than me...

The OP actually doesn't even warrant a discussion really...

So where are the main differences then, in your opinion. ?

Is it a physical difference ?

Or just a mental capacity ?

How much of the difference can be overcome with practise ?

Is it even worth watching them from an improvement point of view, or should we just accept it as entertainment, and try to pick up points for improvement from the women pros - coz at least they are on the same planet as us, even if they're in a different hemisphere ?

Etc etc

Firstly sorry about my OP - bad day....

Well where do I start...firstly all golfers now are atheletes - they all train, go to the gym and eat properly, which gives them a head start physically...this also helps them mentally but the way they think about shots and the game in general is way ahead of you and me - Romero may have necked his driver into the cabbage but I'm sure he still made 5 or 6 and still got round in 73/75 ish which is a bad round for them but one that I would be quite happy with on a good day.....remember the courses are pretty much set up difficult, which are a lot more difficult than your Wednesday society round from the yellows...

You have to have some natural talent but Harrington shows you what can be done through lots of practice...practice does make perfect but you have to practice to the right swing and movements - there is little point in honing a swing that is flawed from the start...

I hate watching golf round a course - really because I am a lazy git and cant be bothered with the walking and jostling but I could sit on the range all day and watch - you can get lots of tips that will help you - I got one from the BMW this week from the range where they all have very little lateral movement throught the ball at impact and I know my bad shot is when I try to hit it too hard and move all over the place....now I just need to work out how to do it!!

It is entertainment but also the very best level of the game you can see so you take it anyway you want to...

Best thing you can do - find a Pro-Am to play in at a course near you and you can probaly enter a team for a couple of hundred and you can play with a regional pro for 18 holes and see how good they are (and they are the ones who 'aren't that good')...

Ladies golf - don't even get me started....

 

[CrapHacker]

You have to have some natural talent but Harrington shows you what can be done through lots of practice...practice does make perfect but you have to practice to the right swing and movements - there is little point in honing a swing that is flawed from the start...

This is the whole reason of the thread.

Practise makes perfect / permanent ( depending on your viewpoint ).

And I'll practise with the best of them, given the chance, time, etc.

But what's the point in practising a nice grooved backswing, and a beautifully balanced followthrough, if the bit in the middle only splats the darn thing 203 yards up the middle with your Sunday best drive.

It seems to me that if everyone can learn how to get an extra 10 - 15 % on their drives ( and not by buying a FAST driver btw ) then their handicap will plummet. well it will for me, anyhow.

Without that, I'm not convinced that spending all that time grooving my swing is worth so much. Like's been mentioned, just learn to keep it in play, and spend all the practice time on pitching and chipping, maybe



Edit :

Oh, and rush out and buy a V-easy, of course ( Bob, any news on when we can get them ? )

 

[bobmac]

Oh, and rush out and buy a V-easy, of course ( Bob, any news on when we can get them ? )

Sorry, its not quite perfik yet but will be very soon (this week hopefully) so in the shops by the end of June.