Course Management - Can you be too cautious?

[Curls]

He said that in his opinion I was too negative and should attack more than I do.

Was he speaking in general terms, or about matchplay? Off 5.5 you have the skills to be more aggressive, those of us with lesser shots in the bag might need to think differently! But I wonder if he was refferring to matchplay. Can't remember who said it but it was before a Ryder cup and he said "if you're not firing at the pins, you're gonna lose to someone who is".

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Was he speaking in general terms, or about matchplay? Off 5.5 you have the skills to be more aggressive, those of us with lesser shots in the bag might need to think differently! But I wonder if he was refferring to matchplay. Can't remember who said it but it was before a Ryder cup and he said "if you're not firing at the pins, you're gonna lose to someone who is".

To be honest, I'm not good enough to play differently for each type of game - except for the obvious going for putts and chips to halve etc.

No, he was talking about my long game, when to take driver/3 wood/iron etc. Cutting corners, or playing the %'s.

 

[Curls]

To be honest, I'm not good enough to play differently for each type of game - except for the obvious going for putts and chips to halve etc.

No, he was talking about my long game, when to take driver/3 wood/iron etc. Cutting corners, or playing the %'s.

Cool, well shame to lose it but at least you took him around 16 and got some free advice into the bargain! I'd certainly listen to anyone of his experience. Do you think it'll be something you can change immediately? Obviously he thinks you have the shots to pull it off, but changing your mindset might take some time, if you're not comfortable/comitted to an agressive play that you've previously stayed clear of. Would be interesting to hear if there's an immediate positive improvement...

 

[jamielaing]

I feel there is a common misconception when it comes to course management. People see this as you play to 100 yards and play from there. I see it as play to the position that gives you the best chance of making par. On some holes it is 40 yards, some its 150 yards. I have a rule that I do not play driver on a short par 4 (under 350 yards) unless I am trying to hit the green (not saying I can hit the ball 350 however a 290 drive leaves me 60 which is not an ideal distance for me). However there are certain holes where this plan goes out the window due to experience. Our 7th is 345 yards down hill and down wind. Driver leaves me with 30 yards or so to the green. My rule says that I should take a 4 iron and play in from there however 30 yards from this green seems to work for me. My bad shot with a driver is a push where the danger is minimal.

Play the hole in the best way to give you a par. It doesn't matter what that is. Use experience to work it out and play to your strengths on each given hole.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Tommy Armour put it this way

Play the shot that you have the best chance of executing well
Play the shot that will give you the easiest next shot

 

[woody69]

I HATE it when you look at a shot and think, "I could maybe hit the green with a perfectly executed shot here, but chances are it's going to be short anyway leaving me a chip on or at worst going into that water over there on the right. I know, I'll just knock one down and leave a nice full shot in with a PW / 9"... and then you hit your safe shot and it ends up flying into the water anyway..

Or "Green is 280 from the tee. Perfect driver may get me up there, but bunker is likely to be the result, so let's just take a hybrid and leave 100 or so in" and CHUNK it's 10 yards off the tee in the clag

Ahh the joys of being a high handicap player

 

[UlyssesSky]

Why not have have a round of super aggressive golf.

See what that brings.

^^ This.


Or even better: play a couple of rounds of super aggressive golf. Then compare the average score for every single hole from your aggressive rounds with the average score for every hole from your 'normal', cautious rounds.

Should give you a pretty good idea on what holes playing more aggressive pays off.

 

[pbrown7582]

not convinced its down to course management taking 4 from 100 yards is a common cause of frustration for us handicap golfers. More pitching practice required maybe?

 

[craigstardis1976]

Although I am a fairly new golfer I have made decent progress and regularly been having lessons, here are my thoughts and remember they are worth what you are paying for them.

1. On every par four and par five, take the longest club off the tee you have confidence in. For me that means a lofted driver or a four hybrid.

2. Assuming you are not in very deep rough on a par four, work out the longest club you can usually hit the green with....in may case it is a 4 hybrid that goes 170-180 yards. If I have longer than that for the second shot...take a club that will leave you short of any trouble in front of the green and get your next short shot as close to the hole as you can.

3. On a par five hole, hit whatever is your favorite club in your bag for the second (as long as it won't put you in water!) and then hit your third to the green.

That's how I try to play smart...


PLAYING AGGRESSIVE!!

Second shots to par 4's you must hit the green whenever you can on reachable par 4's to lower your handicap. Make sure you have enough club and take dead aim!

Approach shots on par 5's, get them as damn close to the pin as often as you can.

Putts: I never like to leave them short. I would much rather have a four foot comebacker than a three footer short of the hole.

I know a lot of it sounds obvious. It is! I don't always achieve what I want too but I think being committed and practicing those principles on the course gives me a framework to improve my game more.

 

[Imurg]

GMan...
You need to play these holes more often with the new strategy to determine if its a better way to play the holes. One time doesn't count for much.
You may have simply played them well with the more aggressive shots - who's to say you wouldn't have wedged it close and birdied....?
Use the driver and there is more chance that if you get it wrong you're deeper in the cack, whereas the more cautious approach has less chance of trouble.

Our 6th is a 320 yard par 4.
Trees cut in from the right making the hole a gentle dogleg
Bunker on the left corner is about 210 from the tee.
Fragger always takes his driver. The gap between trees and bunker is about 50 yards. Today he was 5 yards from going in the bunker. He wedged it on and made a birdie so I can't turn around and say its not the way to play it but the number of times he's behind the trees with no shot or in the left rough having pulled the driver tells me that a hybrid/5 wood would be a safer way
It's still easy to get it wrong - I hit 6 iron off the tee but was behind the trees. The reason I hit 6 iron is that if I got it right I'd be in perfect position for a gap wedge to the pin. If I pushed it, which I did, I'd be far enough back to get up and over the trees and still have a chance of making the green - I ended up just short...
So, no guarantees, but I've always thought Fragger would, generally, score better by not taking the driver. He disagrees.
At the end of the day, play to your strengths.

And practice those wedges!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our 4th is a nothing hole. About 320 yards with a fairway bunker about 80 yards short. OB tight left to the green and you can't miss there. Two green side bunkers right. Most lay up to 90-100 yards but the green slope severely right to left and front to back and so getting close not a given. I could take the bunker on with driver, especially as it plays downwind. I need to do something as I often bogey it.

There are some holes where I think prudent rather than cautious can pay dividends. It's about finding a balance and knowing where you can be aggressive and get away with it if you aren't totally accurate and where you need to play percentage golf. At the end of the day it comes down to trying to score as low as you can however you do it

 

[MadAdey]

Usually I'll hit a 6 iron into the landing area next to the orchard. This usually leave me a gap/pitching wedge to the green. Quite sensible eh? So why do I always bogey the hole

what I would say is get on the practice ground. If you can't use wedges to get up and in a max of 3 shots then getting to a low handicap is always going to be a struggle. With a wedge in hand you should be hoping to get up and down in 2 shots some of the time to either save par or make birdies.

My understanding of course management, is that you take a club that puts you into a good position to score while minimising and/or removing risk.

As per my original question. Within reason, can you be too cautious when making your choice of shot and how you manage your way around the course?

i think the phrase 'course management' is sometimes misunderstood. It doesn't mean taking the safest shot possible, or I would hit PW off every tee. What it does mean is playing the correct shot for YOU.

The 16th where I play at is a prime example. 410 yard par 4 narrow fairway, with a sweeping dogleg right at 230 yards, that is full of big trees all the way down the right, making it impossible to get on the green if you go in them. To the left it is open, apart from some thickish rough. So I hit my driver around 280 with a left to right shot shape, or I hit my 3W 250 with a right to left shot shape. FOR ME, hitting my 3W knowing that it is going to end up in the middle to left portion of the fairway is the correct shot, because if I let my driver leak to the right it is almost certain to end up in the trees, where my 3W doesn't.

That to me is course management, playing the correct shot, not the safest shot.

 

[Region3]

Even if you play ultra safe, you still have swing aggressively at it. I don't mean trying to knock the cover off, but just a solid fully committed swing.

So often you see people 'playing safe' and give it a half hearted swing. It's no wonder they don't work out quite often.

 

[garyinderry]

I've seen people lash at their lay up shot.

Equally as stupid.

 

[JustOne]

Are you American or is your hobby butchering the Queens English?

That would be the Queen's English you're referring to?



... and yes I think you can be too cautious, sometimes.

 

[Snelly]

That would be the Queen's English you're referring to?
.

Can be with or without '. But thanks anyway...

 

[Hobbit]

Even if you play ultra safe, you still have swing aggressively at it. I don't mean trying to knock the cover off, but just a solid fully committed swing.

So often you see people 'playing safe' and give it a half hearted swing. It's no wonder they don't work out quite often.

As above. In some cases it can be a half hearted swing, and in others it may be you relax too much and just don't concentrate.

 

[JustOne]

Can be with or without '. But thanks anyway...

Odd that the Queen's English Society would use the apostrophe when they (apparently) could do without.

Anyhoooo... the QES urgently needs a new Hon. Secretary, you might as well apply :thup:

http://queens-english-society.org/

 

[Merv_swerve]

G - the real question must be " why do you bogey the hole from 100 yds...?"/QUOTE]

Yes! My 1st thought too.

 

[Snelly]

Odd that the Queen's English Society would use the apostrophe when they (apparently) could do without.

Anyhoooo... the QES urgently needs a new Hon. Secretary, you might as well apply :thup:

http://queens-english-society.org/

You're the pedant, probably better suited to the role than me? :thup: