Course Management Across Handicap Spectrum

[robert.redmile]

ReaLt interesting thread for me, at my current level. On Sunday hit my best two drives ever on tough par 4s. (450 into wind)

bothh into the wind, and one time took a 7 iron to leave me about 50 in for my third. And the other time, took 9 iron to leave wedge.

first shot hit straight left into the trees, the second mud hit into fairway bunker!

tried to do the right thing, but both times wished I pulled hybrid and gone for it!

 

[jamielaing]

SI is irrelevant in my opinion and I honestly believe many players would benefit from not knowing them. Golf is about getting the ball in the hole in as few shots as you can. It doesn't matter if you double bogey SI 18, or birdie SI1, it's 18 holes worth of individual shots. too many people think they have to score well on SI 18 or can afford to drop a shot or 2 on SI1, it's all nonsense.

I fully understand that stroke index can be a poor indicator however my point was that a number of high handicappers have par in their head when realistically it is not what you are going to score. This sounded like a hard par 5 that realistically would be a 6 for the majority of players above a 14 handicap or so. By managing the hole despite playing some bad shots he left with a 7 which would probably would be +1 for him rather than the double it would be for a single figure player.

For me high handicappers need to apply course management to get their bogey on some holes not trying to get pars and leaving disappointed. I play off 11 and aiming for single figures this season yet I have 2/3 holes that I aim to hit in 3 rather than 2 to prevent the out of bounds that leads to the doubles. With the layout of the hole described this should apply here in my opinion.

 

[Big-Dog]

Jamie very good point and on a similar theme earlier in the thread :-

Play the shot that makes the next shot easy!

It may have been one of the greatest ever that said it but it holds true the only difference is that a pro will TRY and do it we hope we can so play within yourself when it counts in comps etc but when practising or having a round with your mates for a pint or two go for it after all practise (proper practise) makes perfect !! or certainly will improve your game within your natural ability.

Very good thread this!

Hit em straight ....ish

 

[louise_a]

Surely you need be able to hit a consistent shot before course management really kicks in, there is no point in thinking a 150 yard lay up is an certain iron, if you can't hit that iron 150 yards with any consistency.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

ReaLt interesting thread for me, at my current level. On Sunday hit my best two drives ever on tough par 4s. (450 into wind)

bothh into the wind, and one time took a 7 iron to leave me about 50 in for my third. And the other time, took 9 iron to leave wedge.

first shot hit straight left into the trees, the second mud hit into fairway bunker!

tried to do the right thing, but both times wished I pulled hybrid and gone for it!

As Louise said
Surely you need be able to hit a consistent shot before course management really kicks in, there is no point in thinking a 150 yard lay up is an certain iron, if you can't hit that iron 150 yards with any consistency.


Was it the same club for the "bad" shots?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

SI is irrelevant in my opinion and I honestly believe many players would benefit from not knowing them. Golf is about getting the ball in the hole in as few shots as you can. It doesn't matter if you double bogey SI 18, or birdie SI1, it's 18 holes worth of individual shots. too many people think they have to score well on SI 18 or can afford to drop a shot or 2 on SI1, it's all nonsense.

I'd say SI is relevant on how you view your score on a hole - but not so much in the context of good CM and how you play it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

nope, no amount of CM will help someone who cant get the ball off the tee with some sort of distance and accuracy.

But you are talking about golfing ability here - not course management. Good course management can mitigate the impact of poor or inconsistent golfing ability

 

[guest100718]

But you are talking about golfing ability here - not course management. Good course management can mitigate the impact of poor golfing ability

As others have said as well. untill you reach a certain level then CM is not really relevant.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As others have said as well. untill you reach a certain level then CM is not really relevant.

Sorry - I just don't agree at all. Golfing ability and CM are surely completely separate things (though clearly complementary) . Good course management may not help a less able player that much on the handicap front due to the 'worse than 2 over net is 2 over' factor- but it can turn '12s into 9s'. And for a newbie hitting such scores - learning how good course management can save you shots is a lesson learnt that will be invaluable as you improve.

 

[KhalJimbo]

As a beginner who is currently averaging 106 (according to my Hole 19 App):

1) Know and accept your ability. EG: I can't drive so I leave my driver in the bag. I can't control spin so I never aim to get on the green (unless its a small Par 3), I'll always instead aim to land in close to the green and then play a gentle chip\pitch on. I generally treat Par 4's like they're Par 5's etc

2) Not good enough to give tips

3) I would guess the advice would massively change from mine to someone who has a handicap.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

As a beginner who is currently averaging 106 (according to my Hole 19 App):

1) Know and accept your ability. EG: I can't drive so I leave my driver in the bag. I can't control spin so I never aim to get on the green (unless its a small Par 3), I'll always instead aim to land in close to the green and then play a gentle chip\pitch on. I generally treat Par 4's like they're Par 5's etc

2) Not good enough to give tips

3) I would guess the advice would massively change from mine to someone who has a handicap.

No offence meant, but that to me is too negative:

- how will you improve at driving if you don't use your driver,

- and, par 3's for higher handicappers are the easiest holes, so why not try to hit them. Just play to the safer part of the green away from hazards?

 

[Dan2501]

I've tried ditching the driver, doesn't work. Could never reach longer par-4s in two with a hybrid off the tee, so learning to get good with the driver has already started to save me shots. Stick with it, it can hurt your scores, but the big stick can also really help. Distance isn't imperative, but it makes the game a heck of a lot easier.

 

[Davey247]

I know for a fact my course management is awful. I enjoy hitting driver, so tend to hit that regardless then only have eyes for the pin when making an approach. Would actually be interesting to see if I can improve by playing golf courses 'properly'. The answer is probably yes

 

[KhalJimbo]

No offence meant, but that to me is too negative:

- how will you improve at driving if you don't use your driver,

- and, par 3's for higher handicappers are the easiest holes, so why not try to hit them. Just play to the safer part of the green away from hazards?

Let me clear this up, I will aim for the green on Par 3's but what I mean was if I am on a long Par 5 and 200 yards away I won't take the hybrid out and go for the green, instead I'll take out the 7 iron and hit it to within 50 - 40 yards away instead, as I feel more comfortable with a gentle pitch from there. If I go for the green from a distance away I'll either end up on the green and rolling to the back and having a 5 putt or losing the ball OOB as I'm concentrating on power and not precision.

And with the Driver, I leave it in the bag on the course as I suffer from a horrible slice so almost everytime I use it I end up with 3 off the Tee. I'm currently only using it on the range in conjunction with some driving lessons until I learn how to hit the ball straight with it. Instead on the course I use my 3 wood as I am much better off the tee with that and very rarely end up 3 off the tee or playing provisionals.

 

[ScienceBoy]

As others have said as well. untill you reach a certain level then CM is not really relevant.

I too cannot agree with this. If you can progress a golf ball you need to manage the risks to achieve your best possible score.

If anyone has used something like my three goals method to break 100 then it would support the above.

Without management would just hit the highest immediate reward shot every time regardless of risk or positioning of the next shot.

Course management steers you from immediate reward to a longer term benefit, maybe two or three shots later.

In other words withou course management a very beginner will attemp endless un-makeable shots resulting in little progress and much cost of penalty shots. With it they make reasonable progress and reduce the amount of penalty shots.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Let me clear this up, I will aim for the green on Par 3's but what I mean was if I am on a long Par 5 and 200 yards away I won't take the hybrid out and go for the green, instead I'll take out the 7 iron and hit it to within 50 - 40 yards away instead, as I feel more comfortable with a gentle pitch from there. If I go for the green from a distance away I'll either end up on the green and rolling to the back and having a 5 putt or losing the ball OOB as I'm concentrating on power and not precision.

And with the Driver, I leave it in the bag on the course as I suffer from a horrible slice so almost everytime I use it I end up with 3 off the Tee. I'm currently only using it on the range in conjunction with some driving lessons until I learn how to hit the ball straight with it. Instead on the course I use my 3 wood as I am much better off the tee with that and very rarely end up 3 off the tee or playing provisionals.

Sorry, I read your original post as not going for par 3's off the tee.

Out of interest, are you talking about in competitions re: going for par 5's in 2 and not using your driver off the tee?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I too cannot agree with this. If you can progress a golf ball you need to manage the risks to achieve your best possible score.

If anyone has used something like my three goals method to break 100 then it would support the above.

Without management would just hit the highest immediate reward shot every time regardless of risk or positioning of the next shot.

Course management steers you from immediate reward to a longer term benefit, maybe two or three shots later.

In other words withou course management a very beginner will attemp endless un-makeable shots resulting in little progress and much cost of penalty shots. With it they make reasonable progress and reduce the amount of penalty shots.

100% this

(though TBH I never took really took in SBs three goals method - rather preferring my 'play to 6s' to break 100 - but I'm guessing they amount to the same thing )

 

[guest100718]

I too cannot agree with this. If you can progress a golf ball you need to manage the risks to achieve your best possible score.

If anyone has used something like my three goals method to break 100 then it would support the above.

Without management would just hit the highest immediate reward shot every time regardless of risk or positioning of the next shot.

Course management steers you from immediate reward to a longer term benefit, maybe two or three shots later.

In other words withou course management a very beginner will attemp endless un-makeable shots resulting in little progress and much cost of penalty shots. With it they make reasonable progress and reduce the amount of penalty shots.

If you dont reliably know where the ball is going, you cant manage your way round a course.

 

[Dan2501]

Even if you don't know where the ball is going you can still effectively manage the course. For example, you slice your drive off into deep rough and have 170 to the pin. Someone without CM would pull a 6 out of the bag and try and go for the pin. Someone who understands CM would pull out a wedge, hack it out back onto the fairway and go for the green in 3. Much more involved in CM than hitting full shots as lay-ups.

 

[Tongo]

The 15th at Augusta is a prime example of where the very best will use course management. Those forced to lay-up short of the pond will normally lay up in a position where they have a full shot into the green rather than hit their second shot as close to the water as they can. An inexperienced player or a player not using good course management would likely do the latter to leave a shorter third shot.