Coul Links - Maybe not!

[patricks148]

I do think the Environmental lobby kinda make a rod for their own back by simply objecting to pretty much every major building work or project.

It totally takes away any impetus for their arguments as they seem to object to everything.

'The conservation groups say that building the golf course would have a 'devastating environmental impact' in an area that is incredibly important for wildlife and heavily protected by several environmental designations.'

A devastating environmental impact? What words would they choose if they proposed to build 800 homes, a retail park, an office block and a new duel carriageway?
That would have a devastating environmental impact. A golf course, obviously less so.

However... if the local council had approved it, surely the area can't have a current designated status? Or it would never have gotten that far in the 1st place.

its certainly does have current status, hence the original objections my SNH and SEPA. if the council had the power to just let it be built on it would have started by now

 

[Jacko_G]

My main concern Jacko is for what already here, they are not building and clubhouse and the only structure on the course is a starters hut. people will be bused from Dornoch to play, or at least that's the plan.

most visitors ive spoken to come to play Dornoch and depending which Tour operator they come with might play CS and Nairn as well and maybe the odd local course ( Highland links, which is the joint marketing company for the 3 courses). Nairn and Dornoch have had bumper years for visitors, a record for us, Mainly down to the weak Stirling. Many have either been to the other top courses in Scotland and those on the open rota or are going there next. with so many courses now vying for that business the smaller clubs are losing out. lets not forget CS were also planning another course, though i'm not sure if that will go ahead.

Sounds very similar to a "successful" Machrihanish Dunes set up.

Only the "bothy" with guests bused out from the hotels in Machrihanish and Campbeltown.

 

[Grant85]

My main concern Jacko is for what already here, they are not building and clubhouse and the only structure on the course is a starters hut. people will be bused from Dornoch to play, or at least that's the plan.

most visitors ive spoken to come to play Dornoch and depending which Tour operator they come with might play CS and Nairn as well and maybe the odd local course ( Highland links, which is the joint marketing company for the 3 courses). Nairn and Dornoch have had bumper years for visitors, a record for us, Mainly down to the weak Stirling. Many have either been to the other top courses in Scotland and those on the open rota or are going there next. with so many courses now vying for that business the smaller clubs are losing out. lets not forget CS were also planning another course, though i'm not sure if that will go ahead.

Also, likely that more accommodation will be built at existing resorts up there.
And there is surely scope to use the airport for people coming from other sites in Scotland for 1 day?

No doubt a tour operator is already considering... base yourself in Ayrshire or Fife... play the courses there, but we can also do a one off visit to RD, Macrahanish etc without spending a day in the car.

 

[patricks148]

Sounds very similar to a "successful" Machrihanish Dunes set up.

Only the "bothy" with guests bused out from the hotels in Machrihanish and Campbeltown.

i didn't say it wouldn't be successful, just that the other smaller clubs would suffer IMO.

Machrihanish is a slightly different kettle of fish as it probably helped the existing course and did bring people of those parts, they might not have already gone. there are already a lot of courses and i think it just pushed some further down the pecking order. I'm sure it would be a stunning course and from laying with Todd he knew what he was talking about when it came to the course and what he wanted to Achieve. But lets not forget where it is and its 6 months golf for the year at most

 

[patricks148]

Also, likely that more accommodation will be built at existing resorts up there.
And there is surely scope to use the airport for people coming from other sites in Scotland for 1 day?

No doubt a tour operator is already considering... base yourself in Ayrshire or Fife... play the courses there, but we can also do a one off visit to RD, Macrahanish etc without spending a day in the car.

There is outlying permission for a hotel at Inverness Airport by one of the chain hotels, but that's the exception really. It doesn't really make that much sense building big hotels up here as its completely seasonal, golfers only come for 6 months of the year. no one comes to play Dornoch in the winter as it half a course more or less and as soon as its frosty they close the course, unlike TOC and St Andrews, even the two hotels in Dornoch have struggled with Golf View next door to RD being closed for 10 years until recently when the consortium involved in CS brought it.
There are no plans for air travel between other Scottish Airports as its just not viable for many. There used to be a flight some years ago i believe to Edinburgh, but it just became too expensive. Most of the existing internal flights in Scotland are either oil or Scottish Gov Subsidy funded.

FYI you can already fly to Cambeltown from Glasgow with Logan Air, but its not cheap for a non local (subsidy)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This development has been called in for good reason and will hopefully not go ahead.
Golf is just not that important and there are already more than enough over priced courses in Scotland.

I hope it does go ahead and add in another world class links alongside Dornoch and CS - that would make a very worthwhile trip and there would be no doubt deals with accommodation included to entice players up there , would certainly be a bucket list tick for a lot of people.

 

[Grant85]

Thought I would make another point here, given the subject was brought up in the Tourist Sauce thread.

I think ultimately golf courses will already have been built on similar sites to this over a century ago. And in more recent years, Trump Aberdeen and Mackrihanish Dunes were given the go ahead and it was accepted / expected they would be sympathetic to the dune environment. Seems that may not have happened in Aberdeen and also the full scale of the project / economic benefits have not materialised. However I believe it has happened at Mack Dunes and it is an important site to maintain the golf economy in that area.

Given that the Highland Council, SEPA and almost all of SNH are content with the project, it does seem strange that it hasn't got the go ahead. I'd imagine the Scottish Government would be crazy to not let this go ahead, especially if the locals are broadly for the course being built.

And also it's Scotland... golf is what we have. A product we can sell to the world like no other country can (maybe Ireland in terms of courses). A bit of salmon, whisky, some castles and culture and GOLF.

 

[patricks148]

Thought I would make another point here, given the subject was brought up in the Tourist Sauce thread.

I think ultimately golf courses will already have been built on similar sites to this over a century ago. And in more recent years, Trump Aberdeen and Mackrihanish Dunes were given the go ahead and it was accepted / expected they would be sympathetic to the dune environment. Seems that may not have happened in Aberdeen and also the full scale of the project / economic benefits have not materialised. However I believe it has happened at Mack Dunes and it is an important site to maintain the golf economy in that area.

Given that the Highland Council, SEPA and almost all of SNH are content with the project, it does seem strange that it hasn't got the go ahead. I'd imagine the Scottish Government would be crazy to not let this go ahead, especially if the locals are broadly for the course being built.

And also it's Scotland... golf is what we have. A product we can sell to the world like no other country can (maybe Ireland in terms of courses). A bit of salmon, whisky, some castles and culture and GOLF.

I don't think S N H are happy with it from what I've heard,last time I asked the wife.
problem is most of the limited accommodation is already full in summer, there are plans to build a hotel near the airport,which is a good hour plus to dornoch, but a lot of places struggle in winter, so it's a big risk building hotels that could well be empty for 5 months of the year, may be a case of economic benefits not materialising like at trump

 

[Grant85]

I don't think S N H are happy with it from what I've heard,last time I asked the wife.
problem is most of the limited accommodation is already full in summer, there are plans to build a hotel near the airport,which is a good hour plus to dornoch, but a lot of places struggle in winter, so it's a big risk building hotels that could well be empty for 5 months of the year, may be a case of economic benefits not materialising like at trump

It may be, but I'd imagine there is still a winter market for a hotel / spa that could do winter getaways / conferences / weddings etc.

Might not make a killing, but at least to keep it operational / break even and then make money April to October.

Possibly a number of self catering lodges will be done that people would use in the winter, but don't necessarily require a big staff on hand.
Caravan sites likewise.

Mike Keiser is no mug, so he'll have a plan on how they can provide enough capacity for sufficient numbers of golfers to use and access the place comfortably that will generate sufficient profit.

 

[patricks148]

It may be, but I'd imagine there is still a winter market for a hotel / spa that could do winter getaways / conferences / weddings etc.

Might not make a killing, but at least to keep it operational / break even and then make money April to October.

Possibly a number of self catering lodges will be done that people would use in the winter, but don't necessarily require a big staff on hand.
Caravan sites likewise.

Mike Keiser is no mug, so he'll have a plan on how they can provide enough capacity for sufficient numbers of golfers to use and access the place comfortably that will generate sufficient profit.

No doubt the super rich will have no problems visiting.






though you would think it's easy enough to build acom, it's not that simple castle Stuart's initial plan was 70 lodges and 120 room hotel, 10 years later still nothing and in that time it's been boom for visitors our pax numbers at the airport are up 500,000 in that time

 

[Grant85]

No doubt the super rich will have no problems visiting.






though you would think it's easy enough to build acom, it's not that simple castle Stuart's initial plan was 70 lodges and 120 room hotel, 10 years later still nothing and in that time it's been boom for visitors our pax numbers at the airport are up 500,000 in that time

You would think so - Castle Stuart is close enough to Inverness and Nairn to use existing accommodation there.

And I get the whole super rich argument and in reality it is not going to effect me, or the vast majority of Scottish golfers - who might play it once very few years, but for the country and the area cit could develop the highlands as a substantial golf tourism centre, and not just a place that people may tack onto to trip to Fife or Ayrshire to play Dornoch or CS (or Nairn of course).

The whole package is required though. Not much point having Dornoch and Coul on hand to get decent numbers of golfers on site with cash to burn, but it costing £1,000 per night to stay anywhere north of the Kessock Bridge with nowhere to buy food after 6pm etc.

 

[patricks148]

You would think so - Castle Stuart is close enough to Inverness and Nairn to use existing accommodation there.

And I get the whole super rich argument and in reality it is not going to effect me, or the vast majority of Scottish golfers - who might play it once very few years, but for the country and the area cit could develop the highlands as a substantial golf tourism centre, and not just a place that people may tack onto to trip to Fife or Ayrshire to play Dornoch or CS (or Nairn of course).

The whole package is required though. Not much point having Dornoch and Coul on hand to get decent numbers of golfers on site with cash to burn, but it costing £1,000 per night to stay anywhere north of the Kessock Bridge with nowhere to buy food after 6pm etc.

there is a good reason why the R&A don't hold top events at Dornoch, there is little or no large scale accommodation, its all small B&B or a couple of small hotels. if you are ever up there try going into any of the 3 small restaurant's in the town, they are packed, even RD club house is woefully short on space until the build a new clubhouse... when ever that will be is another story

if they could make it a destination for longer stays that would be great, but at the moment most Americans anyway come to play Dornoch primarily then take on one or twi of the others before heading to Fife/East Lothian or Ayrshire... that's the way things are at the moment. in theory if someone would stump up the cash for a resort near Dornoch that would bring jobs and investment, but relying on the current set up will just mean many Americans than come will play RD, Coul and maybe CS and Nairn before heading elsewhere, so Coul will just replace one of the existing courses

There is already a marketing group set up between Dornoch, Nairn and Castle Stuart called highland links and they work with most of the tour operators with RD getting the lions share, then Nairn then CS for Numbers

 

[pendodave]

I commented on the other thread, so apologies for duplication.

I love playing golf in Scotland, and have made a number of trips. The one thing that there doesn't seem to be a shortage of is wonderful golf in seaside locations.

There seems to be rather less in the way of pristine undeveloped coastline.

Given that there are more destination links golf courses in Scotland than anywhere in the world, I fail to see why this needs to be built. There must be better ways to increase tourist visits by golfers and non golfers than (green) concreting over the last bits standing.

Luckily, we can depend on our politicians to make considered long term decisions untroubled by commercial interests and brown paper bags with cash in...

 

[Grant85]

I commented on the other thread, so apologies for duplication.

I love playing golf in Scotland, and have made a number of trips. The one thing that there doesn't seem to be a shortage of is wonderful golf in seaside locations.

There seems to be rather less in the way of pristine undeveloped coastline.

Given that there are more destination links golf courses in Scotland than anywhere in the world, I fail to see why this needs to be built. There must be better ways to increase tourist visits by golfers and non golfers than (green) concreting over the last bits standing.

Luckily, we can depend on our politicians to make considered long term decisions untroubled by commercial interests and brown paper bags with cash in...

There is plenty of undeveloped coastline in the highlands & islands and most of it inaccessible to all but flora and fauna.

However the golf course doesn’t destroy the coastline or kill animals and is probably as or more sympathetic than farming to environmental concerns.

Plus we also live in this thing called a democracy and if elected representatives from the Highland region decide a project has sufficient merit to get the go ahead, then that should be enough for the landowners to do what they see fit with their land.

 

[patricks148]

There is plenty of undeveloped coastline in the highlands & islands and most of it inaccessible to all but flora and fauna.

However the golf course doesn’t destroy the coastline or kill animals and is probably as or more sympathetic than farming to environmental concerns.

Plus we also live in this thing called a democracy and if elected representatives from the Highland region decide a project has sufficient merit to get the go ahead, then that should be enough for the landowners to do what they see fit with their land.

they certainly do... esp if there is a brown paper envelope involved

 

[Grant85]

they certainly do... esp if there is a brown paper envelope involved

I would be fairly confident that is not the case in Highland council, where most councillors are selfless public servants giving up any and all free time to serve their community.

 

[patricks148]

I would be fairly confident that is not the case in Highland council, where most councillors are selfless public servants giving up any and all free time to serve their community.

then you don't know the Highland council very well!

 

[pendodave]

There is plenty of undeveloped coastline in the highlands & islands and most of it inaccessible to all but flora and fauna.
However the golf course doesn’t destroy the coastline or kill animals and is probably as or more sympathetic than farming to environmental concerns.

There may (or not) be plenty of undeveloped coastline (I suspect there is less than you think), but dune systems of this type are not common, for this reason it is protected.
The reference to it being more sympathetic than farming is whataboutery of the highest order, as there is no prospect of it being farmed being proposed.

These cavalier attitudes to land that other people value brings the sport into disrepute in a way that is completely unnecessary. I suggest we might want to start thinking a bit more carefully about the best way to maximize the (very considerable) resources that golf already has at its disposal.

If several globally recognised golf destinations and many more excellent existing courses and towns/villages can't generate enough interest and income from visitors, than what problems will adding one more look to solve?

 

[KenL]

There may (or not) be plenty of undeveloped coastline (I suspect there is less than you think), but dune systems of this type are not common, for this reason it is protected.
The reference to it being more sympathetic than farming is whataboutery of the highest order, as there is no prospect of it being farmed being proposed.

These cavalier attitudes to land that other people value brings the sport into disrepute in a way that is completely unnecessary. I suggest we might want to start thinking a bit more carefully about the best way to maximize the (very considerable) resources that golf already has at its disposal.

If several globally recognised golf destinations and many more excellent existing courses and towns/villages can't generate enough interest and income from visitors, than what problems will adding one more look to solve?

At last, someone how cares about the environment.

Golf is not that important and there is more than enough courses already. Just look at the number that are closing.

As to providing work, there seems plenty available for those that are willing to look for it.