Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[pendodave]

That's interesting. The numbers up here are halls driven. My daughters friends around the north who have it or are isolating are halls based as well. I understand why it rips through halls but for it to go through housing surprises me. That equals a lot of households and individuals ignoring advice on quite a major scale.

The hows and why's of all this, how it affects certain areas more than others, are interesting to see and work out. At the moment for example the campus universities are not spiking, it is the city sites. That may change of course but the difference is there right now.

I'm not surprised. Student housing is extremely cramped, living rooms as bedrooms etc, has very small living/cooking/washing facilities. It's prime spreading conditions. Quite similar to the living conditions of the people who work in food processing plants...
Also, no 'rule breaking' required - they're all in the same areas of the city, you're always meeting mates, having a chat etc when you go to a shop. Job done.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

It’s really interesting to see Spain’s infections levelling off despite them not seeming to take the draconian steps being talked about here.

I’d be interested to hear what Hobbit has to say about events there.

I read that Spain very recently has reduced the number of cycles it does for PCR from 40ish to low 30s, if true that would remove quite a number of people from testing positive. And hence the fairly quick dropping going on.

From the bit I have read about PCR cycles(I know nothing btw), the fact we are up in 40s seems a bit mad/high.

 

[Jimaroid]

I'm not surprised. Student housing is extremely cramped, living rooms as bedrooms etc, has very small living/cooking/washing facilities. It's prime spreading conditions. Quite similar to the living conditions of the people who work in food processing plants...
Also, no 'rule breaking' required - they're all in the same areas of the city, you're always meeting mates, having a chat etc when you go to a shop. Job done.

Let's not forget being crammed into often poorly ventilated warm, stuffy and cramped lecture theatres in large numbers to begin with. It's not just the students suffering, the staff are too.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Is there not an argument to say they do grasp that the risk to their physical health is very low but the risk to their mental health is possibly higher if they just sit in their student halls all the time? And also you could argue that they may feel there are plenty of things our generation just don't get as well where they will have to pick up the consequences later on. Not saying that equals things up, but it would be interesting to examine when so many feel how they do. As I think just saying 'they do not get it' is missing a lot of underlying reasons as this kind of thing does not happen in a societal vacuum.

Yeah completely, health is on their side and there sometimes moments in time that you will never get back.

Some periods in life are never repeated, something like newly borns, going to university when a teenager, the age from 17-20ish , if you are still fit at 80, etc are such moments and probably not repeatable.

Generally going from 30-32, 35-37 or 50-52 or 63-65 etc with restrictions on your life, are not comparable to those other moments in life.

What is surprising, is when I go out and see the older generation, old people are getting on public transport that have cars, going into cafés, into pubs, into shops, into clubhouses, mixing in big groups, seeing loads of people over a number of days inside, not bothering social distancing etc. I can understand why they wish to continue a certain way of life tho.

Do the most venerable people grasp it, do the less affected group grasp it, of course some don't. Some do, some don't. I dislike generalisations as they are to often not true, but people love sound bites.

 

[GB72]

It has crossed my mind that the increase in positive cases could actually cause people to break the regulations more rather than less. Bear with me on this as it is a bit contrary. You take a person who was fully compliant during lockdown and was seeing positive results in all of the figures, a goal being achieved. What they are now seeing is that it was all for nothing (not in reality but as a mental picture). To them it seems lockdown has failed, the bits of freedom that they had earned are being taken away and a generally negative press are reinforcing that view. That creates a mindset where you start to think that you are going to get it anyway, nothing you do is going to stop the spread so you may as well just get on with life and deal with the consequences later.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Yeah completely, health is on their side and there sometimes moments in time that you will never get back.

Some periods in life are never repeated, something like newly borns, going to university when a teenager, the age from 17-20ish , if you are still fit at 80, etc are such moments and probably not repeatable.

Generally going from 30-32, 35-37 or 50-52 or 63-65 etc with restrictions on your life, are not comparable to those other moments in life.

What is surprising, is when I go out and see the older generation, old people are getting on public transport that have cars, going into cafés, into pubs, into shops, into clubhouses, mixing in big groups, seeing loads of people over a number of days inside, not bothering social distancing etc. I can understand why they wish to continue a certain way of life tho.

Do the most venerable people grasp it, do the less affected group grasp it, of course some don't. Some do, some don't. I dislike generalisations as they are to often not true, but people love sound bites.

Depends what stage of life people are at aswell, myself and a colleague from work both the same age.

At lockdown she had just met a guy so found it hard not seeing him as she was worried Ive litterally just started the relationship in 3 months or whatever is he going to be interested ..

Then you look at my situation

Happily married , kids with at the time 2 more on way

We were more than happy to sit at home.. it's bliss to not have to go out!

 

[Billysboots]

It has crossed my mind that the increase in positive cases could actually cause people to break the regulations more rather than less. Bear with me on this as it is a bit contrary. You take a person who was fully compliant during lockdown and was seeing positive results in all of the figures, a goal being achieved. What they are now seeing is that it was all for nothing (not in reality but as a mental picture). To them it seems lockdown has failed, the bits of freedom that they had earned are being taken away and a generally negative press are reinforcing that view. That creates a mindset where you start to think that you are going to get it anyway, nothing you do is going to stop the spread so you may as well just get on with life and deal with the consequences later.

Not contrary at all - it’s an observation I’ve now heard several times, especially when we consider other countries who appear to have managed reasonably well, either without lockdown or after they have been eased.

I certainly think any return to a nationwide lockdown will be very hard to enforce for the very reason you cite.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Not contrary at all - it’s an observation I’ve now heard several times, especially when we consider other countries who appear to have managed reasonably well, either without lockdown or after they have been eased.

I certainly think any return to a nationwide lockdown will be very hard to enforce for the very reason you cite.

I remember clearly from the first briefings that they didn't want to lock down too early as people would get bored and stop complying.. so you have to do just right..

The scientists aren't stupid they know it's impossible to control a population who don't listen at the best of times

 

[Ethan]

I remember clearly from the first briefings that they didn't want to lock down too early as people would get bored and stop complying.. so you have to do just right..

The scientists aren't stupid they know it's impossible to control a population who don't listen at the best of times

That was the view of the behavioural psychologists, not public health doctors. But they were wrong, and in delaying lockdown missed thew window within which it was possible to fundamentally change the course of the pandemic.

There was never an expectation that everyone would comply, just that most would, and most did. City centres were empty, roads quiet, fewer kids of key workers went to school than expected, so many people worked from home that the Govt had to ask people to go back. Sure, there were politicians driving to Durham, house parties, etc, but relatively little and probably very little which changed the course of the illness.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It has crossed my mind that the increase in positive cases could actually cause people to break the regulations more rather than less. Bear with me on this as it is a bit contrary. You take a person who was fully compliant during lockdown and was seeing positive results in all of the figures, a goal being achieved. What they are now seeing is that it was all for nothing (not in reality but as a mental picture). To them it seems lockdown has failed, the bits of freedom that they had earned are being taken away and a generally negative press are reinforcing that view. That creates a mindset where you start to think that you are going to get it anyway, nothing you do is going to stop the spread so you may as well just get on with life and deal with the consequences later.

My attitude has changed slightly. I am still following all the rules with regards to face masks, I have the NHS app and use it and I have not been into a inside bar/restaurant since it all started. I also have a teenage daughter and 2 elderly parents. And my daughter asked if she could go into Nottingham tomorrow (the number one city in terms of covid at the moment) with her mates. And we may then go and see my parents if they want to see us. And I've said yes to her going in (as long as she does follow the mask and distancing guidelines) as I essentially think that the risk to her getting it is still actually pretty low and even if she does chances are it will not be serious. I've also given my parents the choice if they want to see us after as they can decide depending on how risky they see meeting us will be.

Currently even if we go then it is not breaking the rules, although it may well be from Monday. But I have changed my mindset a bit in that before I would have not let her go, but now I feel the mental harm it is doing to my daughter by not seeing her friends and just hanging out as we all did at her age is possibly greater than the physical harm she may come to if she gets it. And it is up to my parents to isolate more if they want to avoid it as much as possible.

 

[Slab]

That was the view of the behavioural psychologists, not public health doctors. But they were wrong, and in delaying lockdown missed thew window within which it was possible to fundamentally change the course of the pandemic.

There was never an expectation that everyone would comply, just that most would, and most did. City centres were empty, roads quiet, fewer kids of key workers went to school than expected, so many people worked from home that the Govt had to ask people to go back. Sure, there were politicians driving to Durham, house parties, etc, but relatively little and probably very little which changed the course of the illness.

I don't think it was just the window that was missed, the lockdown itself wasn't really fit for purpose. I think its safe to say it was a pretty ‘lite’ lockdown & even at peak 5-6 million did not comply (wasn’t it published that only a 90% compliance at peak if I recall)

Unless you’re the size of Australia 5-6 million is still a lot of spreading. Not only that there was once/twice daily shopping trips, daily exercise trips, daily pet walking trips… by tens of millions more who were complying

Then there’s the millions of non-essential online orders for everything from DIY supplies to board games that had to be picked, packed, replenished, supervised, delivered etc causing hundreds of thousands of needless contacts every day

For millions it was nothing more than an extended ‘fair fortnight’ holiday period where lots of businesses closed but folks carried on with other activities. Hindsight tells us it didn’t have a cat in hells chance of dealing with a pandemic

 

[road2ruin]

I've also given my parents the choice if they want to see us after as they can decide depending on how risky they see meeting us will be.

I think this is the attitude and the types of discussions that families should be having. This whole thing of 'killing your gran' is going a thing if you actually see her knowing what else you've been doing in your everyday life. Maybe gran doesn't want to live her life rattling around her home without seeing her children and grandchildren. My grandfather is 101 and has been pretty much locked up in his care home since March. They've done a pretty decent job however Covid got into the care home at the start of September and he's now a prisoner in his room, understandable as they want to protect their residents however it now means he has no contact with anyone and he's giving up, it won't be Covid that gets him, it will be his personal decision to give up on life.

In terms of my parents we've already had the discussion as to how the feel about seeing us. Myself and wife both work from home so aren't pretty low risk however our daughter (6 years old) is at school plus has gymnastics and swimming classes so is the most likely carrier of anything. My parents have made it clear that they would far rather take the risk and see their grand daughter than not so that's just what we'll do and hope nobody gets ill.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Also a bit frustrating that where I live in Nottingham is going to be under restrictions any second now. Which will mean an end to playing badminton which helps to keep me sane and no doubt a run on bog rolls and pasta by the stupid people in the supermarket.

The borough I am in has the 2nd highest rate in Nottingham, but when you look at a more local level, the vast majority of that is driven by one area where all the students live which is a fair way away from me. The figures for my town council area where I actually live and shop and go to the leisure centre, 2 cases in the last week. Understand you have to lock down on a fairly generic and large area as people do move about, but frustrating nevertheless.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think this is the attitude and the types of discussions that families should be having. This whole thing of 'killing your gran' is going a thing if you actually see her knowing what else you've been doing in your everyday life. Maybe gran doesn't want to live her life rattling around her home without seeing her children and grandchildren. My grandfather is 101 and has been pretty much locked up in his care home since March. They've done a pretty decent job however Covid got into the care home at the start of September and he's now a prisoner in his room, understandable as they want to protect their residents however it now means he has no contact with anyone and he's giving up, it won't be Covid that gets him, it will be his personal decision to give up on life.

In terms of my parents we've already had the discussion as to how the feel about seeing us. Myself and wife both work from home so aren't pretty low risk however our daughter (6 years old) is at school plus has gymnastics and swimming classes so is the most likely carrier of anything. My parents have made it clear that they would far rather take the risk and see their grand daughter than not so that's just what we'll do and hope nobody gets ill.

Kind of my parents exact words. They are of course wary of catching it, but also don't especially want to live a life completely isolated and not see their kids and grandchildren in the latter years. So they have said they are more than happy to decide themselves who they want to see and I will respect that. And my daughter getting messages that she may be 'killing her grandparents' is not actually that helpful.

 

[Ethan]

I don't think it was just the window that was missed, the lockdown itself wasn't really fit for purpose. I think its safe to say it was a pretty ‘lite’ lockdown & even at peak 5-6 million did not comply (wasn’t it published that only a 90% compliance at peak if I recall)

Unless you’re the size of Australia 5-6 million is still a lot of spreading. Not only that there was once/twice daily shopping trips, daily exercise trips, daily pet walking trips… by tens of millions more who were complying

Then there’s the millions of non-essential online orders for everything from DIY supplies to board games that had to be picked, packed, replenished, supervised, delivered etc causing hundreds of thousands of needless contacts every day

For millions it was nothing more than an extended ‘fair fortnight’ holiday period where lots of businesses closed but folks carried on with other activities. Hindsight tells us it didn’t have a cat in hells chance of dealing with a pandemic

I think it is generally accepted now that had we locked down, lite or not, a week or so earlier, there would have been a substantially smaller numbers of deaths.

The principles of the public health response are very simple. 1. Keep the virus out. 2. Limit its movement. We could have done 1 with airport controls. 2 needs lockdown, particularly for indoors activities.

Neither of these have to be complete, there is a spectrum where better achievement will have better results, but something is still better than nothing. If you achieve 1 and keep the virus out, then limiting the spread sort of takes care of itself because there is less virus circulating that requires containment.

I think few people did once or twice daily shopping trips and the exercise or dog walking trips outside should not be a problem. This is a condition of prolonged close contact inside or in places of poor ventilation. Anyway, the initial peak passed so something worked. Then as we reopened, cases rose again. I think it is clear that the lockdown (or call it what you will) had a favourable effect on transmission and the reopening an unfavourable one.

Assuming some survival of the fittest herd immunity plan is not going to happen, then the only way to control this is to lock down again.

 

[chrisd]

As a granddad of 3, I know I'd rather not see them for a few weeks, so that i could still enjoy what I hope will be the next 15 or so years, because they haven't bought the virus to me when it's as prevalent as it has been

 

[Slab]

Assuming some survival of the fittest herd immunity plan is not going to happen, then the only way to control this is to lock down again.

I wish that were true but while a lockdown is a measure of control I just don't think that a UK lockdown is the kind of control that's needed from a practical sense
We locked down here hard and fast
They closed the borders
They imposed a curfew
They closed all businesses
They eradicated the virus 100% in 40 days
We've had no indigenous cases for more than 5 months now

We partially reopened the airport 9 days ago & we've had 18 cases arrive in that time (fortunately all arrivals go to quarantine) That's the kind of control that's needed but it is just not sustainable and not something folks in the UK will accept or comply with

 

[robinthehood]

I wish that were true but while a lockdown is a measure of control I just don't think that a UK lockdown is the kind of control that's needed from a practical sense
We locked down here hard and fast
They closed the borders
They imposed a curfew
They closed all businesses
They eradicated the virus 100% in 40 days
We've had no indigenous cases for more than 5 months now

We partially reopened the airport 9 days ago & we've had 18 cases arrive in that time (fortunately all arrivals go to quarantine) That's the kind of control that's needed but it is just not sustainable and not something folks in the UK will accept or comply with

We did a decent job, everywhere closed, towns cities, streets , roads deserted.
Were you here to witness it?

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Kind of my parents exact words. They are of course wary of catching it, but also don't especially want to live a life completely isolated and not see their kids and grandchildren in the latter years. So they have said they are more than happy to decide themselves who they want to see and I will respect that. And my daughter getting messages that she may be 'killing her grandparents' is not actually that helpful.

I am not judging, as it is so individual in my eyes. However one big issue I have within myself, is that I am not sure I can live with the thought, that I past on the virus, if that leads to a death, with say my mum or my wifes side[all 70s +]. I took the decision that I am not seeing certain people inside as a result(its been a pain!), as not sure I could live with that thought. Haven't even had a cuddle of the new born baby grandchild or mum or like since. But it doesn't all feel right and not sure its right, if there is such a thing as right, in these times. And am slowly realising this isn't workable in the medium term(ie like now!), so are re-assessing as such. Think I am going to build a room with a room, with plastic sheeting and bought some proper masks and stuff like that.

Out of interest, how are you coping with the issue about if you happen to pass it on ? is it just that they decided what was best for them, so kind of what will be, will be and at least they were doing what they wanted and were happy ?

 

[Slab]

We did a decent job, everywhere closed, towns cities, streets , roads deserted.
Were you here to witness it?

I'm not doubting the reduction in traffic once a lockdown of sorts was eventually announced, as I said it seemed a lot like a stay at home holiday atmosphere for many if this forum was any guide
But I didn't make it up, members on this forum posted almost daily about their non-essential purchases, about daily trips to shops by multiple persons from same households about why they wouldn't wear a mask or why they felt their job was essential, just re-read the first 20 pages of this thread for a flavour

but yes I was also there right before lockdown, 8th - 16th march. Saw it, saw how we cared (or didn't) went to the pub most nights and bought the t-shirt... making me just as guilty as the next person, I'm not proud of it