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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

That is scathing, however the first thing that came to my mind is China. Was our government taking advice from them?

In normal situations you would trust a government with boots on the ground to give an accurate representation. Especially as the government have been reluctant to do anything to irritate China even now. It’s not just us that stated the risk was low.

After this is over, what will be found out and how much damage did the CCP do. From what I understand no one could gain access to Wuhan to see for themselves, even now samples aren’t being handed over I believe.
 
Kellfire said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1251606098974474244

A thread outlining the major points. I take back what I said previously. The government really have screwed us here. Maybe the end for Boris when this is all over? We can but hope.
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To be honest I'm not 100% sure this changes much for me. Each country is getting the response based on the competence, preparedness and priorities of their respective governments. I think the fascinating thing with this is that there are some very hard and sobering metrics to compare countries, although as has been seen, even those get at times arguably deliberately muddled (so are we counting deaths in care homes or not, how many more in Wuhan?). As Tiger says, we are where we are, and we are mostly where I expected us to be based on the current government and talent we have in the cabinet to step up when the MP is incapacitated.
 
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MegaSteve said:
From the ST article, this morning, it would seem the "person at the top" has done very little in the way of leading...
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You can understand that over the last couple of weeks, but he did create his cabinet of mostly 'bang average at best' performers, so he does bear some responsibility for that. Before that I really think he had to do a lot of growing up very quickly, he started off with his usual schtik as he's well known for not being a details guy, even a bit popularist Trumpy, saying he's been shaking hands etc, etc. But to be fair realised that following that approach was not the best so changed his tack a bit to be a bit more like a national leader. But one could argue that, according to the article, by that stage a lot of damage had already been done and then he got the damn thing.
 
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Hacker Khan said:
To be honest I'm not 100% sure this changes much for me. Each country is getting the response based on the competence, preparedness and priorities of their respective governments. I think the fascinating thing with this is that there are some very hard and sobering metrics to compare countries, although as has been seen, even those get at times arguably deliberately muddled (so are we counting deaths in care homes or not, how many more in Wuhan?). As Tiger says, we are where we are, and we are mostly where I expected us to be based on the current government and talent we have in the cabinet to step up when the MP is incapacitated.
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The Scotland figures now include deaths in care homes and at home where there is strong evidence that the person had the virus.
 
Is this just a political thread now?

Day 32 of curfew, went to a shop for the first time yesterday since it started, my wife had done the two previous trips. Pretty much everything in stock , no queue and only a handful of customers
Sat and Wed are our allocated shopping days, can't leave the house outside of that except for medical reasons or with a permit
Only one new case in the last 6 days and no new deaths, I hope thats a good sign for the bigger picture here
 
pauldj42 said:
No, no, no, this is far too serious to simply write the problem off as “some getting what they want while others struggle”.
It’s not about a scapegoat it’s about identifying how the problem has happened and preventing it in the future.
How on on earth you equate the public panic buying toilet roll against NHS Staff having their lives put at risk is beyond me.
Rather than think the public are looking for a scapegoat twist it on its head and realise the public are looking for a hero to step up and sort it out.
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S R isn't saying that what happened is the best way, but it is the way it is/ was done. Because different Trusts were left to their own devices as to what and when stuff was procured.
If you were in charge of Trust A procurement and you played it like Joseph of Egypt and ordered more than necessary seeing a dire need in the future, and
the procurement team in Trust B didn't see what the fuss was and prioritised other things, then you have what SR described.
Thats what happens when you devolve.
If, however, the NHS had decided that epidemic/pandemic equipment should be ordered/stored etc on a national basis, then ,Yes, you can blame the head of NHS. Then maybe the Health minister
After all this , I suspect the latter view may be the dominant one in quite a few scenarios in the NHS
 
Slab said:
Is this just a political thread now?

Day 32 of curfew, went to a shop for the first time yesterday since it started, my wife had done the two previous trips. Pretty much everything in stock , no queue and only a handful of customers
Sat and Wed are our allocated shopping days, can't leave the house outside of that except for medical reasons or with a permit
Only one new case in the last 6 days and no new deaths, I hope thats a good sign for the bigger picture here
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Sounds like your govt have managed this situation very well, acted quickly and decisively with a proper shutdown unlike some others. New Zealand another excellent example.
It is political here now because of the historic underfunding of state healthcare, lack of PPE for docs/nurses/carers, open airports and perceived underplaying of virus seriousness early on.
There was a bit of national rallying when PM was ill but as frustration and anger increases and the more people die, many arguably needlessly, the more the blame game on govt and WHO, China etc gets fuelled.
UK remains a very divided place politically. Govt feel they are above answering tricky questions so journalists dig and uncover, then for govt it's cover up, deny or deflect time and trust vanishes. Tbh plain honesty would be the best approach but that is a very very rare thing in UK politics and therein lies the problem.
Governed Cuomo in NY state is so respected because he tells the honest brutal truth.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
S R isn't saying that what happened is the best way, but it is the way it is/ was done. Because different Trusts were left to their own devices as to what and when stuff was procured.
If you were in charge of Trust A procurement and you played it like Joseph of Egypt and ordered more than necessary seeing a dire need in the future, and
the procurement team in Trust B didn't see what the fuss was and prioritised other things, then you have what SR described.
Thats what happens when you devolve.
If, however, the NHS had decided that epidemic/pandemic equipment should be ordered/stored etc on a national basis, then ,Yes, you can blame the head of NHS. Then maybe the Health minister
After all this , I suspect the latter view may be the dominant one in quite a few scenarios in the NHS
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You’re doing what SR assummed, ie, people are trying to play a blame game, THEY ARE NOT.

Colchester asked Homer a direct question due to Homer’s unique (from a forum point of view) position of unfortunately working at the sharp end.

SR jumped in and started the blame game, Colchester then explained he wasn’t doing that!

We are we are with the crisis, and, as posted previously, rather than looking back and pointing fingers we need to address the situation going forward, only the Government are in such a position to get a grip of the PPE and get a true picture of what is out there.

Again, it is only people like yourself and SR mentioning what trusts may or may not of done in the past, that’s irrelevant, we need to move forward and sort the here and now.
 
Bunkermagnet said:
As you did.
The WHO may be ones to ask, but you have to say after South Korea was so affected by SARS they have taken steps to reduce any possible issues if anything happened again..as we are seeing now. Perhaps we need to stop things like this are a "once in a lifetime" or similar event, and accept that we are so global in our ways now that we must look at how things have gone and take the according measures for next time (which there surely will be). Therefore we must take advise from South Korea and see how it has prepared itself.
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It's all a risk analysis isn't it. Probability, impact and all that, then what mitigating measures can we take or want to take. If you're not prepared or have mitigating plans in place you can execute very quickly then the response will generally be not ideal. As some countries are finding.
 
So the ST wrote BoJo’s government obit today... lies, deny, avoid, distract. They did get somethings right (eg opening the money taps, get Nightingale running, testing) f-Ed up something’s (lack of PPE, denial).

Today’s Briefing is going to be testy. Which poor bugger will draw the short straw. What does the spin rule book say here
1) send a weak lamb to slaughter and take one for the team or
2) send the best option - Sunak (?) to bat it out. Even send BoJo who can play the sympathy card.

Surely there might someone accepting bets on this.. I would expect some kind of ‘PM’s message’
 
Hacker Khan said:
It's all a risk analysis isn't it. Probability, impact and all that, then what mitigating measures can we take or want to take. If you're not prepared or have mitigating plans in place you can execute very quickly then the response will generally be not ideal. As some countries are finding.
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I wasnt playing any game. I attempted to explain how the system works now and why we were experiencing some problems with supply.

You and some others are jumping on the blame band wagon being rolled out by the press, I think it's a disgraceful way for people to be acting at this time, it makes me cringe the way the normal suspects are suddenly using the powers of hindsight to drip away with ' You didnt want to do that you should have done this' Its petty and political sniping at its worst.

The Government arnt perfect, none are but please let's drop the armchair political 'all seeing eye' attitudes.
 
Mudball said:
So the ST wrote BoJo’s government obit today... lies, deny, avoid, distract. They did get somethings right (eg opening the money taps, get Nightingale running, testing) f-Ed up something’s (lack of PPE, denial).

Today’s Briefing is going to be testy. Which poor bugger will draw the short straw. What does the spin rule book say here
1) send a weak lamb to slaughter and take one for the team or
2) send the best option - Sunak (?) to bat it out. Even send BoJo who can play the sympathy card.

Surely there might someone accepting bets on this.. I would expect some kind of ‘PM’s message’
Click to expand...
I suspect they’ll send Gove. As much as I dislike his morals, principles and overall personality (?), he is an absolute master at answering questions without actually saying anything new or interesting. He is a beige bulldog.
 
Mudball said:
So the ST wrote BoJo’s government obit today... lies, deny, avoid, distract. They did get somethings right (eg opening the money taps, get Nightingale running, testing) f-Ed up something’s (lack of PPE, denial).

Today’s Briefing is going to be testy. Which poor bugger will draw the short straw. What does the spin rule book say here
1) send a weak lamb to slaughter and take one for the team or
2) send the best option - Sunak (?) to bat it out. Even send BoJo who can play the sympathy card.

Surely there might someone accepting bets on this.. I would expect some kind of ‘PM’s message’
Click to expand...
Maybe they should ask you to do it, you seem to have a better grip on the situation than they do.
 
pauldj42 said:
You’re doing what SR assummed, ie, people are trying to play a blame game, THEY ARE NOT.

Colchester asked Homer a direct question due to Homer’s unique (from a forum point of view) position of unfortunately working at the sharp end.

SR jumped in and started the blame game, Colchester then explained he wasn’t doing that!

We are we are with the crisis, and, as posted previously, rather than looking back and pointing fingers we need to address the situation going forward, only the Government are in such a position to get a grip of the PPE and get a true picture of what is out there.

Again, it is only people like yourself and SR mentioning what trusts may or may not of done in the past, that’s irrelevant, we need to move forward and sort the here and now.
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No, I am not doing any blame game at all- neither do I see SR doing that either.
We are simply saying how this situation about PPE has arisen because of different Trusts having the ordering authority, therefore, at this time, it isn't fair or helpful to blame the government.
And I am far from saying no other action is necessary. Look at post 5859 for my take on this. I suggest it is as radical, if not more, than others here.
We need urgent action, get things going-not criticising what has or has not been done in the past( not now, anyway).
My suggestions are more akin to grabbing the wheel to steer the ship away from the rocks, than it is to gather the crew together to argue about what to do next.?
 
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