Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

SocketRocket

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You should clarify exactly what you think is BS. It would be more rational to agree or disagree with specifics rather than broad unstated generalities.
There's so much of it about I find it difficult to know where to start and as I shouldn't encroach into politics I'll leave you to work that out for yourself, or not, as the mood takes you.
 

Hobbit

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The EU is not dissing the vaccine. This is not political. Norway (not even an EU country) and Denmark started this, and they are the most anglophilic of the EMA member countries. As I have said repeatedly, the issue is not a simple comparison of reported rates versus the prevalence of these events in the background population. That is a Daily Mail way of looking at it. The real question is what the true rate is, and whether the clotting problem crosses over a range of different conditions, as one might expect it would. We have seen this go from 'a few DVTs, fewer than you would expect' to 'a few Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis but still very rare' to 'A few more CVST and some other abdominal vein thrombosis' and the MHRA has gone from 'no link with the vaccine' to 'link with the vaccine but benefit-risk still favourable over age 30'. It should be obvious, as it was at the outset to those who have observed previous safety issues play out, that this was an evolving issue, and it is very unlikely to be done yet. The big remaining questions are (a) whether we have detected all the cases of these sentinel conditions, and more importantly (b) whether there is also an increase in the broad range of other clotting conditions such as acute MI, stroke, renal and liver failure and so on. The latter is where the really bad news may be hiding.

Also, it is not the EU. It is the European Medicines Agency, which is independent. If you don't believe it is independent, then you can't really believe the MHRA is independent either, and was not pressured to first approve the AZ vaccine fast (noting that the US has still not approved it) or leant on to minimise the extent of their latest restrictions.

Good reminder on the EMA MHRA independence, appreciated. I worked closely with the MHRA a number of times and never found any bias whatsoever.

Strangely, it goes some way to explain the EMA EU relationship as the EU is still chasing AZ for more doses even though some countries are discriminating based on age.

As an aside, we've been given the nod for the first jab. We fall into the AZ age group but my liver function tests going back since whenever have often confounded medics as they are always outside of the 'window.' Should I decline the AZ in favour of a/n/other vaccine?
 

BiMGuy

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There's so much of it about I find it difficult to know where to start and as I shouldn't encroach into politics I'll leave you to work that out for yourself, or not, as the mood takes you.
Thats a cop out answer.

Do you even know what the meaning of woke is?
 

Ethan

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Good reminder on the EMA MHRA independence, appreciated. I worked closely with the MHRA a number of times and never found any bias whatsoever.

Strangely, it goes some way to explain the EMA EU relationship as the EU is still chasing AZ for more doses even though some countries are discriminating based on age.

As an aside, we've been given the nod for the first jab. We fall into the AZ age group but my liver function tests going back since whenever have often confounded medics as they are always outside of the 'window.' Should I decline the AZ in favour of a/n/other vaccine?

The MHRA has always been a good regulator. Ironically, they drove a lot of the EMA process for medicine approval and safety management. Even more ironically, until quite recently, their independence was assured by their place in the EMA because with centralised approval mechanisms, there was little discretion for significant deviation from the central process.

Now, while mostly the same people are in charge (some went over to EMA), it is clear there is more political pressure on the MHRA. The UK Govt was desperate to make claims of Brexit-related successes (even though they weren't) and get the first approval of AZ, so I expect the MHRA was leaned on to deliver that. Probably not directly by Govt, but through intermediaries like Vallance or JCVI people. Likewise, I expect they were made well aware of the unhappiness there would be were they to recommend limiting the vaccine in the 30s and 40s, the very group just about to be lined up for vaccination.

On the EU/EMA side, the difference in the way individual countries have approached this safety issue illustrates that countries do have degrees of discretion. The vaccine still has approval for use in all age groups throughout the EU, but individual countries healthcare systems can choose to limit use, just like the NHS can limit use of approved medicines in the UK, on the basis of NICE guidance or using contracting levers.
 

SocketRocket

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Thats a cop out answer.

Do you even know what the meaning of woke is?
Yes, it's a slang term for 'Awake' the act of 'waking up' probably an Americanism but like so many words it's now been adopted by a bunch of wannabes who are looking anywhere and everywhere to be offended by something.
 

BiMGuy

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Yes, it's a slang term for 'Awake' the act of 'waking up' probably an Americanism but like so many words it's now been adopted by a bunch of wannabes who are looking anywhere and everywhere to be offended by something.

There is a delicious irony in people getting upset, angry and offended by other people being offended. And its usually the people who use terms like snowflake or woke as insults who are likely to melt the quickest.
 

SocketRocket

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There is a delicious irony in people getting upset, angry and offended by other people being offended. And its usually the people who use terms like snowflake or woke as insults who are likely to melt the quickest.
Oh dear, I seem to have offended you. That's so deliciously ironic ?
 

Old Skier

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The MHRA has always been a good regulator. Ironically, they drove a lot of the EMA process for medicine approval and safety management. Even more ironically, until quite recently, their independence was assured by their place in the EMA because with centralised approval mechanisms, there was little discretion for significant deviation from the central process.

Now, while mostly the same people are in charge (some went over to EMA), it is clear there is more political pressure on the MHRA. The UK Govt was desperate to make claims of Brexit-related successes (even though they weren't) and get the first approval of AZ, so I expect the MHRA was leaned on to deliver that. Probably not directly by Govt, but through intermediaries like Vallance or JCVI people. Likewise, I expect they were made well aware of the unhappiness there would be were they to recommend limiting the vaccine in the 30s and 40s, the very group just about to be lined up for vaccination.

On the EU/EMA side, the difference in the way individual countries have approached this safety issue illustrates that countries do have degrees of discretion. The vaccine still has approval for use in all age groups throughout the EU, but individual countries healthcare systems can choose to limit use, just like the NHS can limit use of approved medicines in the UK, on the basis of NICE guidance or using contracting levers.

Then I take it from this that the MHRA in your opinion isn't independent but the EMA who you now link with the EU are.
 
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larmen

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Back home now, fully vaccinated.

As there were only handful of us with a couple of doctors sitting around for 15 minutes they had time to answer a few questions.

Who do they call for leftover doses? There is no time to decide on who should, they looked at the next Pfizer day and went top down in that list. I had a 9:30 next Saturday, must be the next Pfizer day locally.

They haven’t heard about anyone who had an reaction to a 2nd dose of a vaccine, the 15 minutes are possibly disappearing in the future, at least for the 2nd shot.

AZ, if you had a 1st dose of it and are over 30 that is what you get, or nothing. But if you didn’t react negatively on the 1st it is unlikely you react negatively on the 2nd.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Yes, it's a slang term for 'Awake' the act of 'waking up' probably an Americanism but like so many words it's now been adopted by a bunch of wannabes who are looking anywhere and everywhere to be offended by something.
If it’s a slang term it’s one now adopted by the right wing press to dismiss and denigrate those, and views, it considers to be overly-sensitive to issues of misogyny and racism - how it’s come into vaccination considerations I don’t really know.

Sadly I hesitate to even post the above and certainly cannot say more as I seem to be expert at triggering multiple responses by forummers and reporting of my posts to the mods on the grounds that they contain barely concealed political views. And I get infractions and shut out of ths forum. ??
 
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